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Featured The Resurrected Christ is Jesus, not Yahweh.

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Desert Snake, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    So, in argument after argument, the idea presented is that Jesus is, or isn't, Yahweh.
    However,
    Jesus in human form, is Yahweh.
    Jesus in Spirit form, is Jesus.

    This is why the Kingdom of 'G-d', is Jesus's Kingdom.

    John 18:36
    Jesus is the Lord, in Spirit form, and hence why
    2 Corinthians 6:18

    Makes sense, and many other verses.
    In other words it's a linear progression of Yahweh incarnating, sacrificing himself, and then Jesus receives the Kingdom.

    This is also why there is only 'one god', as said, in the Christian Bible.


    [Comments or arguments welcome.
     
  2. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    This is also why if a Christian says, 'Yahweh is g-d', it doesn't actually match Scripture.

    However, when said, 'Jesus is G-d', it does match Scripture, though He is just called Lord, also.

    The mistake is in going 'backwards', in the linear progression of incarnation.

    Yahweh is a former name in other words, a manifestation that ultimately serves the purpose of a sacrifice.

    This is why the reliable Gospels don't need to 'explain' what happens to Yahweh after the Sacrifice; a 'g-d' was needed to replace the animal Sacrifice , to make it acceptable for complete remission of sins.

    Yahweh is the sacrifice, the sins are redeemed for Believers, and Jesus resumes His Lord persona.

    This also explains why Jesus was so concerned about the money lenders so forth, He knew that this was a *Replacement sacrifice, 'of a 'g-d', that He took upon Himself, to enact.

    Basically Jesus sacrifices Yahweh, and resumes, as Lord, in Spirit form.

    This is why Jesus's name means 'Lord with us' , [book of Matthew, and isn't the false Yehoshua theory, also.


    *normally don't use the expression replacement sacrifice, however for these purposes it does describe the parallel idea.
     
    #2 Desert Snake, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  3. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    So how is Jesus different from Jesus, and Jesus different from Jesus?

    .
     
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  4. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    For a non theist, which is what you have listed, there isn't any. As another RF'r puts it, generally

    Jesus was a devout jew who worshipped Yahweh, and the Romans crucified him,
    (The practice of circumcision is referenced there, so to keep that description accurate, we'll include that



    If you have a scriptural question regarding the premise, go ahead, as this is scriptural debates.
     
  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    As a suggestion, perhaps you could explain exactly WHAT a Modalist is?
     
  6. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Modalism means one or more gods that take more than one form, or even incarnation.
     
  7. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Intriguing, can't say I've actually come across this particular Christian theology per se before (well, not directly).
    Would this theology be that all the various theopanies (from the garden of eden to the burning bush and YHWH, to the chariot of Ezekiel's vision, to Jesus and the holy spirit, etc) are all separate modes of divine incarnation or manifestation?
     
  8. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Yes, definitely.
    Before the standardized trinity idea, by the established church, most Christians were 'modalists', with slight variations. In other words, even a "trinity" idea is traditionally modalistic, not separate persons.

    The established church tried to codify what the Scripture notes, as different aspects of god, however they separated the persons, or aspects, [not everyone believes the Spirit to be a person, and called the actual inferred beliefs, ie types of Modalism, 'heresy'.
     
  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    And for the theist, how is Jesus different from Jesus, and Jesus different from Jesus?


    .
     
  10. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    The incarnation is different, for one. The fact that Jesus sacrifices Yahweh means there is a separation between Jesus, the Resurrected Jesus, and Yahweh, (as a title.
    Again this is a linear progression, Jesus wasn't incarnated before, Jesus did not dwell as a human, before, etc.
    When Jesus ascends, He attains literally a 'new body', yet just resumes the pre-incarnate purpose and role,
    Matthew 1:1
    Romans 8:2
    Matthew 15:9
    Mark 11:11
    2 Timothy 3:1-4
    Colossians 4:
     
    #10 Desert Snake, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  11. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

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    @Desert Snake
    Jesus is clearly YHUH, Jesus is the Father himself.
    So it is God who sacrificed himself. But how must one imagine this? Was God dead?
    A comparison:
    A player creates his own character in a video game. When he was finished he started to control his character, through his character he was now a part of this game world. When his character dies, the player says: I am dead. Because he himself is his character, he is in him but the player himself is still alive in truth.
    The "player" is God, the "character" is Jesus and the video game is the world.
     
    #11 calm, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  12. Goodman John

    Goodman John Member

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    Yahweh, the 'God' of the OT, is not the same God of the NT. The OT Yahweh is nothing less than Satan masquerading as God in order to deceive Man into worshiping him instead of the true God. The Hebrews of old (and those today who reject God as presented in the NT) were thus deceived and, while they did so in good faith thinking they were on the right track, were simply worshiping the 'wrong God'.

    As for Jesus, Jesus himself was simply a man, nothing more nothing less. HOWEVER, the soul within him- the Christ- was a very powerful soul and through Jesus brought us enlightenment on the true God and our relationship to him. The Christ, being a creation of God, was therefore NOT God, but a powerful spirit in his own right in service to God. When Jesus was killed, his soul- the spirit of the Christ- returned to God. Jesus the Man was simply dead as all Men are destined, and there is no resurrection of the flesh- only the return of soul to God or, if the soul is not sufficiently strong, awaiting placement in a new body for another chance at redemption.
     
  13. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

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    The God of the Old Testament is not the "devil", he is the true living God who gave himself the name Yahuah.
    And Jesus is God, Jesus is YHUH.
     
  14. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    You do not believe in transcendence ? Jesus could not have transcended regardless of how?

    It seems you believe that the spirit self isn't individualistic, is what I mean.
     
  15. Goodman John

    Goodman John Member

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    The spirit (or soul) is placed within us at conception, just one of many souls awaiting a body. If, during our lifetime, our soul is strengthened to the point where it can escape Satan's bonds of the physical realm, it may return to the spiritual realm with God. If not, it's simply 'recycled' into another human body for another go at a later time. The physical bodies we have are, in effect, nothing more than 'dirty shirts' for our souls (which are God's creation) while we're here. Death, whether it results in a return to God or placement in a new body, is no more than taking off that dirty shirt- we either 'get clean' with God or we have to put on another shirt.

    As for the spirit (or soul) being individualistic, I think certain souls- like that of the Christ- are powerful enough in their own right to endure only one tour of duty on this rock; in that sense one may identify the Christ with Jesus alone. But the crux is that the Christ was not Jesus' personal soul- Jesus' body was simply a vehicle for the Christ to help awaken us to the true God. (The Christ could have just as easily been placed in Pilate or Mary Magdalene or Muhammad- it was luck of the draw that Jesus was on deck for a soul.) As a rule, though, a random soul is placed in us at conception; neither it nor we have anything to do with who gets what soul or body.
     
    #15 Goodman John, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  16. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    I totally disagree and i'll tell you why.

    First of all, to say that Jesus is God, is not scriptural. Plus, your bringing in words like "carnate" or "incarnate". Is that something that we have to do, bring in words that arent in the bible to match our beliefs? (no offense)
    Let's bring up verses that say that Jesus is God. Would like to examine those.


    However, when said, 'Jesus is G-d', it does match Scripture,

    Jesus is God matches scripture? Were......... There is only one God and..... the Lord Jesus Christ. God is the God and father of Jesus.

    This is why the reliable Gospels don't need to 'explain' what happens to Yahweh after the Sacrifice; a 'g-d' was needed to replace the animal Sacrifice , to make it acceptable for complete remission of sins.
    Yahweh was not sacrificed, Jesus was. God cannot die. Your bringing our Creator down to our level. Jesus was a man, like us in nature. He had to be like us, so he could condemn in sin in the flesh. To overcome sin and tempation.
    Plus, a God wasnt needed, but a man was.......

    Why did Jesus get baptised?....

    Yahweh is the sacrifice,
    God was not the sacrifice, Jesus was.


    Basically Jesus sacrifices Yahweh, and resumes, as Lord, in Spirit form.
    Your totally degrading our Creator!!! Jesus sacrifices Yahweh? Is someone telling you that?
     
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  17. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Our Creator according to the Bible, is Jesus in Spirit Form. In other words you are degrading the Christian God because you don't accept the Sacrifice of Yahweh, which is a Spiritual Sacrifice that is for the believers only, it is conditional. In your version you would still be under the laws, even though Jesus said He was going to fulfill the law. HE, Him, He fulfills the law, by the sacrifice,
    John 10:13
    John 10
     
  18. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    There is only One Lord, for believers.

    You can interpret that any way you want, however I'm not going to interpret that at all. Jesus is Yah, the Lord, and there is only one.

    Verse after verse refutes your ideas.
     
  19. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    You have taken on foreign beliefs,
    Matthew 15:9
    And you aren't reading, or believing, not sure which, what the Bible tells you.

    A prayer thusly 'Lord God', means, 'Jesus, Yah, who is God', so forth.

    This is why the Christian Bible does not work with your beliefs. Even at the most interpretive, it doesn't work, as you have thusly prayers to Jesus before incarnation, so forth, which clearly you can't believe to be true.

    By a hodge podge mix n match of religious doctrine, and finding verses to interpret away from the fact that Jesus is the Lord, therefore God, you have construed a nonsensical religion, with Jesus contradicting your entity, so forth.
     
  20. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Yet, Jesus wasn't sacrificed...

    Jesus clearly says He does this Sacrifice, and obviously since Jesus resumes kingship, it isn't a real type of sacrifice, like your belief, would require.
    It isn't that Jesus 'becomes Yahweh', after the Sacrifice, He just resumes Lordship.

    How does
    Mark 12:29-30
    'Hear o Israel, the Lord our God'...
    Square with your beliefs?

    It can't. Jesus not only says there is only one Lord, it clearly means God. Jesus is called 'one Lord of us', in Scripture.

    How many lords do you have? Do you just guess, when reading scripture, which is meant?

    The only Lord, is Jesus.
     
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