The Reptile-Bird Theory. Real or Fake?

[Gharib]

Actually, dinosaurs are not extinct, birds are dinosaurs for all intents and purposes.

will this thread get any more worse?

 

[Shahzad]

Genetically birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, it takes reptiles and birds together to form a clade, reptiles alone don't form one. The DNA evidence is hard to argue with.

 

[Gharib]

Genetically birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, it takes reptiles and birds together to form a clade, reptiles alone don't form one. The DNA evidence is hard to argue with.

are you saying that birds evolved into reptiles?

 

[Jose Fly]

Eselam,

You were provided a list of examples of fossil specimens that show a mixture of reptilian and avian characteristics--something you agreed is what we would expect if birds evolved from reptiles.

Unfortunately, you have yet to actually address any specific specimen and explain why it fails to meet the criterion you agreed to. Instead you're just kind of hand waving and going on about one specific feature (lungs) rather than objectively and honestly examining the specimens for what they are.

IOW, it looks very much like your request for "transitional fossils" was not made in good faith.

 

[Shahzad]

are you saying that birds evolved into reptiles?

I'm saying birds and reptiles form a clade, meaning they're closely related. In fact so closely related that birds are often classified as a type of reptile, specifically a type of dinosaur. Birds would have evolved from a type of dinosaur.

Do you think birds popped into existence by magic?

 

[Gharib]

Eselam,

You were provided a list of examples of fossil specimens that show a mixture of reptilian and avian characteristics--something you agreed is what we would expect if birds evolved from reptiles.

Unfortunately, you have yet to actually address any specific specimen and explain why it fails to meet the criterion you agreed to. Instead you're just kind of hand waving and going on about one specific feature (lungs) rather than objectively and honestly examining the specimens for what they are.

IOW, it looks very much like your request for "transitional fossils" was not made in good faith.

one problem why i haven't done what you have suggested.

i asked for a website that has information about those fossils dues to wiki not having much. as i went further down that list which autodidact posted the less information wiki had on them, so do you recon it would be fair if i just said they are fake and do not support evolution even though there is insufficent material for me to base that upon?

 

[Gharib]

I'm saying birds and reptiles form a clade, meaning they're closely related. In fact so closely related that birds are often classified as a type of reptile, specifically a type of dinosaur. Birds would have evolved from a type of dinosaur.

you didn;t read the post made a bit eralier on this page did you?

they totlly refute the theory that dinosaurs evolved from birds, which has also been dissproven by myself.

Do you think birds popped into existence by magic?

did you know that this statement sounds utterly childish?

Allah (swt) created birds, just as all other things.

 

[camanintx]

they totlly refute the theory that dinosaurs evolved from birds, which has also been dissproven by myself.

If you really believe this, I suggest you write it down and submit it to the Journal of Paleontology. You might just get a Nobel prize for your efforts.

 

[Shahzad]

they totlly refute the theory that dinosaurs evolved from birds, which has also been dissproven by myself.

Haha nobody says dinosaurs evolved from birds, it's birds that evolved from dinosaurs. Your lack of knowledge regarding avian evolution is stark.

Allah (swt) created birds, just as all other things.

Yes, they popped into existence when Allah says "Be". Magic by any other name. Can you prove that any species has ever magically appeared? I think a belief in magically appearing species is far more childish than belief in gradual evolution.

 

[Jose Fly]

i asked for a website that has information about those fossils dues to wiki not having much

Remember Eselam, I explained that if you are truly curious about these specimens, you're going to have to do some work. That includes doing work on your own.

as i went further down that list which autodidact posted the less information wiki had on them, so do you recon it would be fair if i just said they are fake and do not support evolution even though there is insufficent material for me to base that upon?

Of course not. But wiki is not the only resource available online.

Just to get you started, I'll help you out...

CLICK HERE for several Scienceblog entries on various reptile-avian fossil specimens. Some of the blog entries are very detailed and many of them summarize published research.

 

[Gharib]

If you really believe this, I suggest you write it down and submit it to the Journal of Paleontology. You might just get a Nobel prize for your efforts.

alright i was meant to say dinosaurs evolved into birds, would you like me to nominate you for a special memebers reward here in RF.

 

[Gharib]

Haha nobody says dinosaurs evolved from birds, it's birds that evolved from dinosaurs. Your lack of knowledge regarding avian evolution is stark.

gee thanks for pointing that out. i'm speecheless i do not know about evolution.

how nice to have you around.

Yes, they popped into existence when Allah says "Be". Magic by any other name. Can you prove that any species has ever magically appeared? I think a belief in magically appearing species is far more childish than belief in gradual evolution.

yes true, all children are taught that, i can't believe you are actually still using that.

tell me if you are truthfull, how did the first creature come to exist?

 

[Gharib]

Remember Eselam, I explained that if you are truly curious about these specimens, you're going to have to do some work. That includes doing work on your own.

i was untill i could not find anything.

Of course not. But wiki is not the only resource available online.

Just to get you started, I'll help you out...

CLICK HERE for several Scienceblog entries on various reptile-avian fossil specimens. Some of the blog entries are very detailed and many of them summarize published research.

thank you very much.

but one problem though, birds and dinosaurs share one common ancestor, so i need to know what kind of creature this ancestor is. and i have no idea where to look up such a thing.

so when i was saying that birds did not evolve from dinosaurs i was right about that, and to have it latter proven also is just great.

 

[Jose Fly]

Eselam,

Don't move the goalposts on us. Your original argument was that because there are "no transitional fossils", then the ToE is false. You specifically identified reptile-bird evolution as an area to focus on, and you also agreed that if birds evolved from reptiles then we would expect to find fossil specimens that show a mixture of reptilian and avian traits.

You've been given a lot of information and material that addresses this specific question in great detail.

What the specific ancestor between two taxa is, is a completely different question. I suggest you stick to your original question, read the material that we've gone through the trouble of providing for you, and get back to us with your specific comments. Once we've exhausted this question, we can move on to others.

 

[Gharib]

Eselam,

Don't move the goalposts on us. Your original argument was that because there are "no transitional fossils", then the ToE is false. You specifically identified reptile-bird evolution as an area to focus on, and you also agreed that if birds evolved from reptiles then we would expect to find fossil specimens that show a mixture of reptilian and avian traits.

dinosaurs are not reptiles ok, i had that wrong.

the goal post is the same, i am dissproving the theory that birds evolved from some other creature, so i am interested in what this creature is exactly. since autodidact provided an article about how dinosaurs are not considered to be the ancestors of birds anymore, so this has been dissproven. why do you want me to go over it again?

You've been given a lot of information and material that addresses this specific question in great detail.

too bad a new discovery has been made. not my fault.

What the specific ancestor between two taxa is, is a completely different question. I suggest you stick to your original question, read the material that we've gone through the trouble of providing for you, and get back to us with your specific comments. Once we've exhausted this question, we can move on to others.

i totally agree, so does anyone know what the ancestor of birds is?

 

[Jose Fly]

Eselam,

The goal post is the same, i am dissproving the theory that birds evolved from some other creature

Ah, so you're not asking your questions in good faith and are not approaching this subject openly or objectively.

So why should any of us bother?

 

[camanintx]

the goal post is the same, i am dissproving the theory that birds evolved from some other creature, so i am interested in what this creature is exactly.

This is a classic example of arguing from ignorance. Just because we cannot show you exactly how dinosaurs evolved into birds doesn't disprove anything. You would first have to show why it can't have happened, something you have utterly failed to do.

 

[Gharib]

Eselam,


Ah, so you're not asking your questions in good faith and are not approaching this subject openly or objectively.

So why should any of us bother?

what are you saying?

 

[Gharib]

This is a classic example of arguing from ignorance. Just because we cannot show you exactly how dinosaurs evolved into birds doesn't disprove anything. You would first have to show why it can't have happened, something you have utterly failed to do.

go read the following and then come tell me about it.

Originally Posted by Autodidact
here's an article with an exciting new discovery that tends to indicate that birds and dinosaurs diverged in their evolution earlier than previously believed. Pretty interesting.

 

[Jose Fly]

what are you saying?

I'm saying that it appears you asked, "Show me the transitional fossils between reptiles and birds", not because you are truly interested and will objectively and honestly consider what is provided, but only asked the question because you've already made up your mind that they can't exist and are just looking to "stump the evolutionist".

When someone asks, "Show me X", there's no point in answering if they've already made up their mind that X doesn't exist. All they'll do is just wave away anything you show them and deny it exists.

Are you going to read the material I provided you? If not, just say so now and we can stop wasting everyone's time.