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The Reptile-Bird Theory. Real or Fake?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Gharib, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    i personally do not believe in darwinism. i believe that darwin was a delusional man who obviously had never seen any animals appart from day to day farm animals and thus was amazed when he saw different kinds of birds, which is the starting point of this whole fake theory which isn't even a fact. :D

    from what i know, the Archaeopteryx (below) seems to be the best example that supports the theory of dinosaurs somehow magically "evolving" into birds.

    [​IMG]

    this is where more info can be found about it:
    Archaeopteryx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    NOTE: the links to the references that i use will be posted later on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  2. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    the first thing that i would like to speak of, is it's lungs.

    if this creature is indeed a transitional link between dinosaurs and birds then it should have a lung that is not like that of a reptile, due to having 'evolved' but it should also not be like that of a modern bird due to not having 'evolved' completely.

    does anyone have any information about what evolution scientists say in relation to the lungs of this reptile-bird creature?

    The Lungs of Reptiles vs The Lungs of Birds;



    [​IMG]





    THE SPECIAL LUNGS OF BIRDS
    Birds have a very different anatomy from their alleged ancestors, the reptiles. Bird lungs operate in a completely different fashion from those of mammals. Mammals inhale and exhale air through the same windpipe. In birds, however, the air enters and exits through opposite ends. A special "design" such as this has been created to provide for the high volumes of air needed during flight. Evolution of such a structure from that of reptiles is not possible.

    The respiratory system of mammals and birds operate on completely different principles, primarily because birds need oxygen in much greater quantities than do mammals. For example, a certain bird could require up to twenty times the amount of oxygen necessary for humans. Therefore, the lungs of mammals cannot provide oxygen in the quantities required by birds. This is why the lungs of birds are created upon a much different design.
    In mammals, air flow is bidirectional: air travels through a network of channels, and stops at the small air sacs. Oxygen-carbon dioxide exchange takes place here. Used air follows a reverse course in leaving the lung and is discharged through the windpipe.
    On contrary, in birds, air flow is unidirectional. New air comes in one end, and the used air goes out the other end. This provides an uninterrupted supply of oxygen for birds, which satisfies their need for high levels of energy. Michael Denton, an Australian biochemist and a well-known critic of Darwinism, explains the avian lung in this way:
    In the case of birds, the major bronchi break down into tiny tubes which permeate the lung tissue. These so-called parabronchi eventually join up together again, forming a true circulatory system so that air flows in one direction through the lungs…. Although air sacs occur in certain reptilian groups, the structure of the lung in birds and the overall functioning of the respiratory system is quite unique. No lung in any other vertebrate species is known which in any way approaches the avian system. Moreover, it is identical in all essential details in birds…
    In his book A Theory in Crisis, Michael Denton also points out to the impossibility of formation of such a perfect system through progressive evolution:

    [​IMG]
    Unidirectional airflow in the bird's lungs is facilitated by a system of air-sacs. These sacs collect air and then pump it regularly into the lung. In this way, there is always fresh air in the lungs. A complex respiratory system such as this has been created to satisfy birds' needs for high quantities of oxygen. ​

    Just how such an utterly different respiratory system could have evolved gradually from the standard vertebrate design is fantastically difficult to envisage, especially bearing in mind that the maintenance of respiratory function is absolutely vital to the life of an organism to the extent that the slightest malfunction leads to death within minutes. Just as the feather cannot function as an organ of flight until the hooks and barbules are coadapted to fit together perfectly, so the avian lung cannot function as an organ of respiration until the parabronchi system which permeates it and the air sac system which guarantees the parabronchi their air supply are both highly developed and able to function together in a perfectly integrated manner.
    In short, the transition from mammal lung to avian lung is impossible due to the fact that the lung that would be in a transitional developmental stage would have no functionality. No creature without lungs can live for even a few minutes. Therefore, the creature simply would not have millions of years to wait for random mutations to save its life.
    The unique structure of the avian lung demonstrates the presence of a perfect design that supplies the high levels of oxygen required for flight. It only takes a little bit of a common sense to see that the unparalleled anatomy of birds is not an arbitrary result of unconscious mutations. It is clear that the lungs of a bird are another of the countless evidences that all creatures have been created by Allah.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  3. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    Heres your answer.

    The fact is that not only is the evidence very strong that birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs, but there is no objection 'in principle' to development of the avian respiratory system.

    Bird Lung
     
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  4. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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  5. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    so from what kind of theropod dinosaur did birds 'evolve' from exactly?

    you can't just say the 'evolved' from theropod, cos i was just looking at them and some of them were prety darn big, i can't seem to think of a bird that is about 10-20 times bigger than humans. can you? i won't waste my time on creatures that have nothing to do with this part of the theory.

    once the proper theropod is put forward then we shall see if the bird lung is supported by it.

    and that site just states that the lung is of a theropod dinosaur, but what kind exactly and where are it's remains, or when was it discovered or how old it is, is not mentioned. so what kind of theropod is it?
     
  6. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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  7. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    its all in the link


    A recent paper in Nature (11), shows that theropod dinosaurs have vertebrae pneumatized in a way that is very similar to modern birds. The authors have investigated the well preserved fossil of a theropod dinosaur called Majungatholus atopus and have found that the vertebrae possess very close similaritiies in pneumaticity compared with an extant bird (the sarus crane). See fig 1 below.


    Bird Lung



    (2005) reported on the basis of a comparative analysis of region-specific pneumaticity with extant birds, evidence for cervical and abdominal air-sac systems in non-avian theropods, along with thoracic skeletal prerequisites of an avian-style aspiration pump.The authors demonstrated by examination of an exceptional new specimen of Majungatholus atopus, (Majungasaurus), documenting these features in a taxon only distantly related to birds. Taken together, these specializations imply the existence of the basic avian pulmonary Bauplan in basal neotheropods, indicating that flow-through ventilation of the lung is not restricted to birds but is probably a general theropod characteristic."

    http://www.dinodata.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6974&Itemid=67
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  8. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel Staff Member Premium Member

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    Esalam is this a joke:areyoucra are you serious
     
  9. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    am i serious that it is a joke or am i serious that it's serious?

    what are you asking?
     
  10. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    damn missed that. thanks
     
  11. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel Staff Member Premium Member

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    OK do you really believe Darwin was a delusional idiot,the evidence for his theory is overwhelming,i have some issues with some of the evidence presented but scientifically its done and dusted.
     
  12. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora Staff Member Premium Member

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    In order to believe evolution false, you would more or less need to believe that hundreds of thousands of scientists have conspired over the past 150 years to hide the evidence that evolution is false.
     
  13. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    oh kai you and your evolution budies are very funnie did you know that?

    i looked that up and found the following (below) go underneath the fake image to see something important that is making my head spin with questions.
    [​IMG]
    Name Means:"Flesh Bull"
    Length:24 Feet (7.5m)
    Pronounced: car-no-Tore -us
    Weight:1 ton (960 kilos)
    When it lived:Middle Cretaceous - 115 MYA
    Where found: Madagascar, Africa

    the red bits are very important i recon.

    the following is what i find interesting:

    the age of the theropod is 115 million years old. while the age of the archaeopteryx is 150-145 million years old.

    so how is it possible for the descendant to be older than the ancestor?

    do scientists have a 'miraculous' way to explain that?

    and just look at the lengths, how is it possible for a giant to become a dwarf? but you don't have to answer this explain the age diference first.

    the lengths of the archaeopteryx fossils found compared to humans
    [​IMG]


    the lenght of the 'flesh bull' compared to a human
    [​IMG] length of the dino is 24 Feet (7.5m)
     
  14. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    I think esalams problem may be that he sees the theory of evolution as some kind of threat to Islam.
     
  15. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    yep i do, plenty of such cases where they have used ridiculous examples to support their claims. they would lie about the very first thing they can get their hands on.
     
  16. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    why are evolutionists dissproving islam or something?
     
  17. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    OK it doesnt say anything about that its about the respitory system in therapods and birds

    reported on the basis of a comparative analysis of region-specific pneumaticity with extant birds, evidence for cervical and abdominal air-sac systems in non-avian theropods, along with thoracic skeletal prerequisites of an avian-style aspiration pump.The authors demonstrated by examination of an exceptional new specimen of Majungatholus atopus, (Majungasaurus), documenting these features in a taxon only distantly related to birds. Taken together, these specializations imply the existence of the basic avian pulmonary Bauplan in basal neotheropods, indicating that flow-through ventilation of the lung is not restricted to birds but is probably a general theropod characteristic."
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  18. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    yes he is done and dusted been dead for quite some time.

    i never said idiot, but since you mentioned it, yeah sure why not. :D
     
  19. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora Staff Member Premium Member

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    Makes sense.
     
  20. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    No! but are you thinking they are?
     
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