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The Reification of Consciousness

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I find the seemingly undeniable relationship between consciousness and information extremely interesting--first and foremost, and perhaps unfortunately, because “information” is likewise a difficult term to define. In the most non-technical sense, information can be defined as a reduction in uncertainty. Yet, in physics, information is a well defined and highly important quantity. See: What is information?

In this regard, I think one should not overlook that a recent study showed that the assumption by which Ralph Landauer famously asserted that "information is physical"--i.e., is logically irreversible, and therefore is physically irreversible--is false:

The motivation that led Bennet to introduce logical reversible operations was to overcome the minimum energy expenditure introduced earlier by Landauer. Bennet wrote:

"Landauer has posed the question of whether logical irreversibility is an unavoidable feature of useful computers, arguing that it is, and has demonstrated the physical and philosophical importance of this question by showing that whenever a physical computer throws away information about its previous state it must generate a corresponding amount of entropy. Therefore, a computer must dissipate at least kBT ln2 of energy (about 3 X 10-21 Joule at room temperature) for each bit of information it erases or otherwise throws away."

This limit was generally attributed to all the logical irreversible devices, and among them, the traditional logic gates like "OR", "AND" and "NAND." The work of Landauer and Bennet inspired a significant amount of scientific literature opposing or supporting the existence of such a minimum limit. It's no exaggeration to state that for more than 40 years, the topic has been considered highly controversial.

Now, an experiment has settled this controversy. It clearly shows that there is no such minimum energy limit and that a logically irreversible gate can be operated with an arbitrarily small energy expenditure. Simply put, it is not true that logical reversibility implies physical irreversibility, as Landauer wrote.

The results of this experiment by the scientists of NiPS Laboratory at the University of Perugia are published today in Nature Communications. They measured the amount of energy dissipated during the operation of an "OR" gate (that is clearly a logically irreversible gate) and showed that the logic operation can be performed with an energy toll as small as 5 percent of the expected limit of kBT ln2. The conclusion of the Nature Communications article is that there is no fundamental limit and reversible logic is not required to operate computers with zero energy expenditure.

[. . . ]

Though Landauer famously said "information is physical," it turns out that information is not so physical after all.​

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2016-07-refutes-famous-physical.html#jCp

So apparently information processing in a computational device can be done with no minimum expenditure of energy--I find that just a mind-boggling fact. Yet, it does not ameliorate the importance or fundamental nature of information in physics and other scientific disciplines, as succinctly summarized by physicist Jacob Bekenstein in a 2003 article in Scientific American, Information in the Holographic Universe:

Ask anybody what the physical world is made of, and you are likely to be told “matter and energy.” Yet if we have learned anything from engineering, biology and physics, information is just as crucial an ingredient. The robot at the automobile factory is supplied with metal and plastic but can make nothing useful without copious instructions telling it which part to weld to what and so on. A ribosome in a cell in your body is supplied with amino acid building blocks and is powered by energy released by the conversion of ATP to ADP, but it can synthesize no proteins without the information brought to it from the DNA in the cell’s nucleus. Likewise, a century of developments in physics has taught us that information is a crucial player in physical systems and processes. Indeed, a current trend, initiated by John A. Wheeler of Princeton University, is to regard the physical world as made of information, with energy and matter as incidentals.
Bekenstein proceeds to elucidate the quantitative nature of information and its association to thermodynamics:

Shannon’s entropy does not enlighten us about the value of information, which is highly dependent on context. Yet as an objective measure of quantity of information, it has been enormously useful in science and technology. For instance, the design of every modern communications device -- from cellular phones to modems to compact disc players -- relies on Shannon entropy. Thermodynamic entropy and Shannon entropy are conceptually equivalent: the number of arrangements that are counted by Boltzmann entropy reflects the amount of Shannon information one would need to implement any particular arrangement.​

So in my overtly ignorant way, I would try summarize some of the above as indicating that information is a fundamental phenomena in the empirical universe and even in the development of biological entities; information is a quantity; information is not “physical”; and information and consciousness are somehow inextricably related.

Granted, everything I just said would presumably be quite unsatisfying to a lot of people. And I must admit that I find unsatisfying some of the arguments I've seen for a metaphysics in which information is fundamental, where (therefore) consciousness is explained by and is a product of information. I don't think that the consequent of that conditional is where the facts lead. If nothing else, I keep coming back to simplest forms of the premises and conclusion of Strawson's argument whereby physicalism--as long as we do not assume eliminative physicalism--entails panpsychism. But beyond that, I think that the idea that information accounts for consciousness misidentifies the cart and the horse.

In any case, these days I want to be committed to avoiding the pitfalls of commitment to any particular metaphysical thesis. In RF and other such debate forums, I believe I perceive that and how such commitments to a favorite metaphysical thesis lead otherwise highly intelligent and reasonable people into spouting just abject nonsense. But I think there is a clue or puzzle piece supplied by some of the above regarding consciousness and information and the empirical universe.

Thanks for this.

The more one thinks about what information is the more it seems that it is inseparable from the universe as a whole. Perhaps information is also a whole term.

I deeply suspect that there is, among all whole terms, a relationship that defies the common sense notion of distinct concepts. It may be that in looking at yh ed whole of our reality, we can only do so cognitively, linguistically in a fragmented way. So while we language that God and the Universe and consciousness and information are different ideas, they truly are not. It is our "faulty" brain-languages that seem to require this multiplicity.

Now the answer to this is not to say, "They are all the same thing", because that does not ring true in our heads for the most part.
But maybe we should recognize in the context of our mind-brain that there are obvious issues/qualities/differences in these whole terms as compared to most other terms and that we should not expect to discover any of these ideas in isolation without also understanding they are intermixed with each other in our reality.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The more one thinks about what information is the more it seems that it is inseparable from the universe as a whole. Perhaps information is also a whole term.

I deeply suspect that there is, among all whole terms, a relationship that defies the common sense notion of distinct concepts. It may be that in looking at yh ed whole of our reality, we can only do so cognitively, linguistically in a fragmented way. So while we language that God and the Universe and consciousness and information are different ideas, they truly are not. It is our "faulty" brain-languages that seem to require this multiplicity.

Now the answer to this is not to say, "They are all the same thing", because that does not ring true in our heads for the most part.
But maybe we should recognize in the context of our mind-brain that there are obvious issues/qualities/differences in these whole terms as compared to most other terms and that we should not expect to discover any of these ideas in isolation without also understanding they are intermixed with each other in our reality.
What an excellent and enlightening post! I have often thought that our words consciousness, God, universe (et al.) actually refer to the same thing. But I've never really analyzed the issue in a coherent way as you have. Thank you for that.

Of course, we do get a lot of mileage out of the effort of defining and quantifying terms and figuring out mathematical relationships by way of the scientific method.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
What an excellent and enlightening post! I have often thought that our words consciousness, God, universe (et al.) actually refer to the same thing. But I've never really analyzed the issue in a coherent way as you have. Thank you for that.

Of course, we do get a lot of mileage out of the effort of defining and quantifying terms and figuring out mathematical relationships by way of the scientific method.

Of course. I wouldn't argue for giving up on that effort. However, I think that this quality of our language maps a territory on which our efforts at rationality move about. Not all words are created equal in terms of our objective ability to be rational about them.

Jung described symbols of the unconscious as having the quality of a best description of what is not yet fully conscious. What I have said above probably restates that as a symbol relates to ideas whose character still participates too much in the "whole" or the sum of all things and as such is not amenable to rationality. A symbol is a clear idea but one clothed in layers of conscious or unconscious metaphors. Metaphors are, perhaps, the original "prop" for an idea that later becomes "self-standing" in the light of a culture that sees it as such. Metaphors reflect a natural cognitive function in the brain and actually build up our accumulation of conceptual ideas until such ideas seem to emerge from the depths and rest plainly in the light of day and on solid ground.

So some ideas are still not fully ready for our rationality and these are our myth. We should certainly "science the s**t" out of them. I expect that in so doing these "whole" terms will become fragmented and new references for the "whole" will be found.

The idea of consciousness then reveals our strong propensity to see it as a valid concept even as we struggle to integrate it into our rational framework for understanding the world.
 
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