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Featured The Red Sea is parting again, but this time Moses doesn’t have a hand in it.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by sooda, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe that the planets of our solar system were created before our sun? The book of genesis says they were. Do you believe that Life began to evolve on earth before the sun was created? The Book of genesis says that it did.

    Do you believe that the Israelites were commanded to leave Egypt which they did, and 40 years later they destroyed the city of Jericho? The Book of Exodus says they were, and they did.
     
  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    No evidence to support this, and your claim reflects your selective misuse of science to support your religious agenda.

    In particular the evidence demonstrates that the Pentateuch was compiled, edited and redacted no earlier than ~1000 to 700 BCE
     
  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    The objective verifiable evidence demonstrates the Sun and the planets formed together naturally over a period of billions of years.

    There is no evidence that Exodus is an accurate history and it was edited, redacted and compiled after ~1000 BCE.
     
    #83 shunyadragon, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  4. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Of course the planets which were created before the sun as revealed in Genesis were created, but not over billions of years as you seem to believe, but only about 400 million years.

    The second DAY [Period of universal activity] begins by bringing to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

    This is one scientific theory as to the creation of our solar system some 9 billion years after the creation of those first massive stars that lit up the darkness of the expanding space.

    Whether or not a better theory than that which we have today will develop, time will tell.

    This theory would appear to support the biblical statement, that the process of the division of the waters above from the waters below, [See Genesis 1: 6; KJV] or the division of the solar nebula cloud from the greater Galactic nebula cloud, began some five billion years ago, and that the whole process began with the division of the waters (cloud) above, from the waters (Cloud) below from which the entire Solar system was created. This took just a few hundred million years, about 400 million years in fact, and the creation of our entire solar system was completed by about 4.6 billion years ago.

    It was from the galactic nebular cloud, which was the residue of the heaver elements that were exploded off with the great super nova, which was the death of one of those gigantic earlier generation Stars that our Milky-Way galaxy would be formed in the second creative period=day, as the active universal forces brought about a division of the Solar nebular cloud [The Waters Below] from the Galactic nebular cloud [The Waters Above].

    The accretion of the galactic nebula disk, which was being attracted to the central Black Hole around which it had begun to orbit, transferred angular momentum outward as it transferred mass inward, it was this that caused our solar nebula to begin to rotate and condense inward, bringing a division of the solar cloud, from the galactic cloud, or the waters above from the waters below.

    Within the greater galactic nebular cloud, which was slowly beginning to revolve around the Black Hole that anchored it in space, a piece of the larger cloud complex started to collapse about five billion years ago. The cloud complex had already been "polluted" with dust grains from previous generations of stars, so it was possible to form the rocky terrestrial planets as gravity pulled the gas and dust together, forming a solar nebula. As the cloud=waters of the solar nebula collapsed, its slight rotation increased. This is because of the conservation of angular momentum.

    Just like a dancer who spins faster as she pulls in her arms, the cloud began to spin as it collapsed. Eventually, the cloud grew hotter and denser in the centre, with a disk of gas and dust surrounding it that was hot in the centre but cool at the edges. As the disk got thinner and thinner, particles began to stick together and form clumps. Some clumps got bigger, as particles and small clumps stuck to them, eventually forming planets or moons. Genesis 1: 6—9. As the heavenly cloud was gathered together in one place, dry land, or rather planets began to form. Near the centre of the condensing cloud, where planets like earth formed, only rocky material could stand the great heat. Icy matter settled in the outer regions of the disk along with rocky material, where the giant planets like Jupiter formed.

    As the cloud continued to fall in, the centre would get so hot that it would eventually become a star and with a strong stellar wind, would blow away most of the gas and dust from which the planets of the solar system had been formed.

    By studying meteorites, which are thought to be left over from this early phase of the solar system, scientists have found that the solar system is about 4.6 billion years old! As the solar nebula collapsed, the gas and dust heated up through collisions among the particles. The solar nebula heated up to around 3000 K so everything was in a gaseous form. The solar nebula's composition was similar to the present-day Sun's composition: about 93% hydrogen, 6% helium, and about 1% silicates and iron, and the density of the gas and dust increased toward the core where the proto-sun was: [PROTO SUN.]. The inner, denser regions collapsed more quickly than the outer regions.

    Around Jupiter's distance from the proto-Sun the temperature was cool enough to freeze water (the so-called "snow line" or "frost line"). Further out from the proto-Sun, ammonia and methane were able to condense. There was a significant amount of water closer to the Proto-sun, but could not condense. When the solar nebula stopped collapsing it began cooling, though the core that would later form the Sun remained hot.

    This meant that the outer parts of the solar nebula cooled off more than the inner parts closer to the hot proto-Sun. Only metal and rock materials could condense (solidify) at the high temperatures close to the proto-Sun. Therefore, the metal and rock materials could condense in all the places where the planets were forming. Volatile materials (like water, methane and ammonia) could only condense in the outer parts of the solar nebula.

    Because the density of the solar nebula material increased inward, there was more water at Jupiter's distance than at the distances of Saturn, Uranus, or Neptune. The greater amount of water ice at Jupiter's distance from the proto-Sun helped it grow larger than the other planets. Although, there was more water closer to the proto-Sun than Jupiter, that water was too warm to condense. Material with the highest freezing temperatures condensed to form the chondrules that were then incorporated in lower freezing temperature material. Chondrules (from Ancient Greek chondros, meaning grain) are round grains found in chondrites. Chondrules form as molten or partially molten droplets in space before being accreted to their parent asteroids.

    Any material that later became part of a planet underwent further heating and processing when the planet differentiated so the heavy metals sunk to the planet's core and lighter metals floated up to nearer the surface.

    Because of its great compression, the core of the proto-Sun finally reached about 10 million Kelvin and after the planets of the solar system had been created, the hydrogen nuclei started fusing together to produce helium nuclei and a lot of energy. It was then that the proto-Sun "TURNED ON" and became our Sun, which produced the strong winds called T-Tauri winds named after the prototype star in the constellation Taurus.

    These winds swept out the rest of the nebula that was not already incorporated into the planets. With most of the cocoon gas blown away, the new star itself becomes visible to the outside for the first time. This whole process took just a few hundred million years and was finished by about 4.6 billion years ago. At the distance of about one light year from the earth, is the great icy Dome, that is the boundary of the firmament of our heavens, in which the sun, moon, and planets of our solar system were created.

    According to the Genesis narrative, it is on the second day that the Lord calls for a "firmament" to be in the "midst of the waters" to divide the waters:

    "And God said, let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under (or within) the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day." (Genesis 1:6-8 KJV)

    The term "firmament" according to the Creation account, is taken from the Hebrew: רָקִיעַ raqiya` raw-kee'-ah, which is defined by many scholars as an expanse, or the visible arch of the sky:—firmament, but a primitive root; “רָקַע raqa` raw-kah” means, to pound, hammer, to overlay (with thin sheets of metal):—beat, make broad, spread abroad (forth, over, out, into plates), stamp, stretch.

    The creation of the firmament is associated with the placement of some sort of structure, and in some modern Bibles many modern scholars translate the Hebrew word raqia as a "dome" or "vault". The Hebrew language appears to imply that the firmament is a firm, fixed structure (FIRMament, which can now be seen as the spherical cloud of comets (Icy vault) in which our solar system was created from the solar nebula cloud that was divided from the greater galactic nebula cloud.

    "And God said, “Let there be lights within the firmament or vault to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

    (Genesis 1:14-16 KJV) This verse says that the Sun, Moon, and Stars=planets of our solar system, are "within" the firmament. Therefore, the waters that are "above the firmament=dome/vault" must be above the Sun, Moon and Stars=planets of our solar system, revealing that the waters which are referred to in Psalms 148:4; "Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens," belong to the greater galactic nebula cloud which has become our Milky Way Galaxy.

    The Oort cloud, or the Opik-Oort cloud, which is named after Jan Oort, is a spherical cloud that surrounds our solar system, a cloud of predominantly icy objects such as comets that are comprised of mainly hydrogen, oxygen=water, ammonia and methane, and extends up to about a light year from the sun and defines the cosmographical boundary of our Solar System and the region of the suns gravitational dominance. Here is the Firmament, the great spherical vault within which is found the sun, moons and planets of our solar system, the dome of ice above us.

    Knowing that the planets of our solar system were already created before the sun came into existence when the hydrogen nuclei within the condensing solar cloud started fusing together to produce helium nuclei and a lot of energy thereby creating our sun, we must now ask the question, “Did life on earth begin to evolve before the creation of the sun?” As is recorded in the Bible. And can life exist without sunlight? Proof of this is to be found in the darkest depths of our oceans, where life has evolved over six miles beneath the surface where sunlight does not and cannot penetrate. This subject will be discussed at a later stage.
     
  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    bizzaro superstitious science. Actually technically the sun formed first, but they did to a degree formed together in a protoplanetary disk. Your misuse and misrepresentation of science to justify a religious agenda.is atrocious.

    From: Formation and evolution of the Solar System - Wikipedia

    The formation and evolution of the Solar System began 4.6 billion years ago with the gravitational collapse of a small part of a giant molecular cloud.[1] Most of the collapsing mass collected in the center, forming the Sun, while the rest flattened into a protoplanetary disk out of which the planets, moons, asteroids, and other small Solar System bodies formed.

    This model, known as the nebular hypothesis was first developed in the 18th century by Emanuel Swedenborg, Immanuel Kant, and Pierre-Simon Laplace. Its subsequent development has interwoven a variety of scientific disciplines including astronomy, physics, geology, and planetary science. Since the dawn of the space age in the 1950s and the discovery of extrasolar planets in the 1990s, the model has been both challenged and refined to account for new observations.

    We can see other protoplanetary disks and different stages of solar system formation in our galaxy in the process of forming solar systems.
     
    #85 shunyadragon, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  6. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    You are as wrong here as you were when you said that the electromagnetic energy that was spewed out in the event that is called the 'BIG BANG' was not in the trillions and trillions of degrees.

    How does it feel to reject the scientific and biblical accounts of the creation of the solar system, in favor of the theory of your own imagination?
     
  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    I cited the contemporary references of science, and not my imagination. You . . . that is problem.

    I cited scientific references on the temperature of the Big Bang, and the history of our solar system.
     
  8. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    1. Then tell us what you said, (Which we can verify) then we will continue this debate.
     
  9. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is quite certain who the Hyksos were ..


    The Hyksos practised horse burials, and their chief deity, their native storm god, Hadad, they associated with the Egyptian storm and desert god, Set. The Hyksos were a mixed people of mainly Semitic-speaking origin.

    The Hyksos are generally held to have contained Hurrian and Indo-European elements, particularly among the leadership, but this has been vigorously opposed in some quarters, often for political reasons.

    The Hebrews didn't use horses.. at least NO horse skeletons have been found in Palestine.

    The term Shephard Kings derives from heqa-khase, a phrase meaning "rulers of foreign lands".
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Genesis and Exodus aren't history at all.. Like the rest of the Bible they have been redacted, amended, added to many, many times over 2500 years. .
     
  11. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    They are still rising as India continues to push into Asia. Therein lies the reason for the devastating earthquakes that take place in northern India and Nepal, and Pakistan.
     
  12. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Earthquakes are common in the area. It was not divine prophecy that predicted the "movement of the Earth", but history.

    "And lo! Having read the signs of the shaking of the ground and collapse of buildings in the Land of Italy in newsfeeds, I sayeth unto you there will be more great shaking of the land soon to come. The fire mountains shall rumble, shake and belch forth smoke". Book of Jai 1:2

    I can prophesy too. In fact I would have been a prophet, but there's no money in it.
     
  13. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Atheism is a non prophet=profit organization.

    But can you prophesy when the mount of Olives will be split in two?
     
  14. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    soda wrote...…. Nobody is quite certain who the Hyksos were ..

    The Anointed...….Josephus the historian was.
     
  15. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    I'm not an atheist. I'm probably about as theist as it gets. I just don't believe that anything in the Bible is literal or historical fact. Well, maybe some stories chronicle historical occurrences. Jericho probably collapsed due to seismic activity, for example. But they are largely metaphors and allegories for teaching morality and keeping the tribe(s) together.

    Yes I can. I predict it will split when it happens.
     
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  16. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it.. Josephus Flavius wasn't born until 37 AD..

    The Hyksos invaded Egypt about 1500 BC.
     
  17. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    There's an earthquake map on the net that shows the daily earthquakes in real time all over the world.
     
  18. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    I think I've seen that. They outline and follow all the tectonic plate boundaries, if it's the one I'm thinking of. The Pacific Rim is lit up like a Christmas tree.
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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  20. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    So any historian today, who records anything that happened in the fourth century A.D, should be ignored, because you believe that they wouldn't have a clue.

    The Hyksos left Egypt in 1567 B.C., 67 years before you reckon that they invaded Egypt.

    Can we believe anything that you say?
     
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