The reasons why Christians are accused of idolatry

[Estro Felino]

I would like to discuss with non-Christians the reasons why Christianity is associated with idolatry, which , I think, is an understandable but unsubstantiated stereotype.
Idolatry is condemned by Christians too...so I tend to think people of other faiths don't understand our vision of God.

 

[LuisDantas]

Idolatry is an interesting accusation, in that its very proposal implies that there is a demonstrably mistaken god-conception to be avoided.

That is quite ironic, all things considered. Before idolatry can be declared, it is necessary to decide which god-conceptions are valid and which are not and then to give oneself the authority to decide that someone else's are misguided.

That is not only an ambitious proposal, but also an inherently invasive one, if not outright disrespectful. Technically, any god-worship is idolatry by the perspective of us atheists. But we rarely bother saying so because it is so darned obvious and secondary the very idea of god-worship.

We could easily declare some or any form of worship idolatrous, but only by making it synominous with theism itself or by arbitrarily stating that some subset of same should be considered proper.

And the key word is indeed "arbitrarily". Even cargo cults are not inherently idolatrous, because the very delimitations of what constitutes a "proper" deity are unavoidably arbitrary themselves.

It does not make logical sense to even attempt to claim that worship of Jesus as the Son-aspect of God is idolatrous until and unless one has decided that such a god conception is unproper. Who could possibly have the authority to decree such a thing? An atheist, probably. Who else? A theist who somehow feels confident enough about his or her own understanding of the proper boundaries for divine transcendence that he actually says that his God could not transcend in fact limitations of number or role that human beings can so easily imagine transcended, apparently.

Not my call to make, of course, but I can't help but find it deeply ironic that so many people see fit to attempt to both claim belief in a supremely transcendent God and certainty that its transcendence can not possibly have manifested in the classic Trinity model.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would like to discuss with non-Christians the reasons why Christianity is associated with idolatry, which , I think, is an understandable but unsubstantiated stereotype.
Idolatry is condemned by Christians too...so I tend to think people of other faiths don't understand our vision of God.

What many have an issue with is catholicism. People dont realize catholics in the past killed people who worshiped statues and idols. They changed their art from freestanding religious statues to reliefs so that people wont identify the statue as god; they cant walk around, touch, and pray. Then the CCC has a whole book chapter dedicated to idolism as part of the first commandment and their bible has it too.

I dont know if nonbelievers have a problem with it. A lot of protestants do. Its one of the silliest reasons to put down The Church.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Im taking art history. Im not a wiki fan, but this is the info we were taught about the church and idolism.

Aniconisim

Figurative monumental sculpture was still avoided in the West until the time of Charlemagne around 800; the Franks had no association of sculpture with cult images and a life-size crucifix (with "corpus") known to have been in the Palatine Chapel, Aachen was probably a pivotal work, opening the way to the free general use of large sculpture. This was contemporary with the Byzantine iconoclasm (see below). Religious sculpture, especially if large and free-standing, has always been extremely rare in Eastern Christianity. The Western church was anxious to distinguish its use of images from idolatry, and set out its theological position in the Carolingian Libri Carolini, in similar but slightly different terms to those set out by the Eastern church after the episode of Iconoclasm.[40]

In his travels through the Auvergne between 1007 and 1020 the cleric Bernard of Angers was initially disapproving of the large crucifixes with a sculpted three-dimensional corpus, and other religious statues that he saw, but he came to accept them. The Gero cross, the earliest life-size crucifix image to survive, probably dates to around 960.[41]

Aniconism in Christianity - Wikipedia

That would be nice for a anti-catholic to give me an insight to catholicism and idolotry. I dont know about eastern othorodox, but going by the CCC, the roman catholics dont worhip them.

Catholicism was the christian of that day until protestantism.

 

[Jumi]

To many the Bible is an idol.

 

[Trackdayguy]

To many the Bible is an idol.

I agree. For many the Bible is called "The Word of God" which is why its called a Holy book. The worship of the Bible (idolatry) is rampant amongst fundamentalists, who have been duped into believing it was written by God and should be interpreted literally. However if that's what you believe and its working for you then fine, as long as you aren't seeking to convert others because we are all wrong and deluded.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I would like to discuss with non-Christians the reasons why Christianity is associated with idolatry, which , I think, is an understandable but unsubstantiated stereotype.
Idolatry is condemned by Christians too...so I tend to think people of other faiths don't understand our vision of God.

Strictly coming from the Biblical prospective there are Christian sects that erect images of the divine and/or important Biblical figures. The problem arises from several issues:

1) The creation of idols as intercessors is forbidden.

2) The creation and/or likeness of any Biblical figure as a ”true” representation is in danger of being historically inaccurate.

3) The idea that animate objects other than God have agency.

4) The idea that there is multiplicity within the divine meaning a variation of essence (father, son, holy spirit).

 

[PureX]

Idolatry occurs when we confuse the symbols and images of God with God Itself. Many Christians are blatant idolators in that they believe the words in the Bible came directly from the mind/mouth of God, and should be considered to have God's authority. The Bible is a work of man, same as any sculpture, painting, or mythical story, and to elevate it to being the "words of God" is blatant idolatry.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Idolatry occurs when we confuse the symbols and images of God with God Itself. Many Christians are blatant idolators in that they believe the words in the Bible came directly from the mind/mouth of God, and should be considered to have God's authority. The Bible is a work of man, same as any sculpture, painting, or mythical story, and to elevate it to being the "words of God" is blatant idolatry.

I agree. Good article on the subject

The Bible is NOT the WORD OF GOD: a polemic against Christendom

 

[Srivijaya]

I would like to discuss with non-Christians the reasons why Christianity is associated with idolatry, which , I think, is an understandable but unsubstantiated stereotype.
Idolatry is condemned by Christians too...so I tend to think people of other faiths don't understand our vision of God.

For me it's when Christians (and other theists) reduce god to a known or knowable person or being. Once this happens they tend to speak on his behalf, praising or condemning others and generally claiming to be an authority on what god wants, thinks, feels etc. Their scriptures provide enough justification for them to make such assertions, so they will say that it's not their personal opinion. Such a theist also doesn't consider themselves to be an idolater because they don't worship an idol like ancient pagan tribes etc. So they would reject my definition outright.

But for me placing limits on the limitless, is idolatry.

 

[WalterTrull]

Whatever floats your boat. We use amulets, tree bark, idols, mental jigs, to move along. As we advance, learn more, we shed the unneeded skins. Kind of fun.

 

[PureX]

For me it's when Christians (and other theists) reduce god to a known or knowable person or being. Once this happens they tend to speak on his behalf, praising or condemning others and generally claiming to be an authority on what god wants, thinks, feels etc. Their scriptures provide enough justification for them to make such assertions, so they will say that it's not their personal opinion. Such a theist also doesn't consider themselves to be an idolater because they don't worship an idol like ancient pagan tribes etc. So they would reject my definition outright.

But for me placing limits on the limitless, is idolatry.

Yes, one's personal idea of God becomes "The God of all". I agree, this is a very common form of idolatry. So much so that I think it's almost inevitable among theists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

To many the Bible is an idol.

Especially the King James version in the U.S.. Oh my aching head. When one deals with KJV only extremists sooner or later one's head will be spinning. For some reason the Devil was able to affect the translation of all other Bibles and other crazy claims. The outdated English makes personal interpretations by those that do not understand Jacobean English too. They apply modern meanings to words, do not read in context, and other such errors. It can be quite a mess.

 

[suncowiam]

I don't know the context of this thread but just going by the definition of idolatry alone, yeah it sounds like idolatry...

What's the context though?

 

[RedDragon94]

Technically, any god-worship is idolatry by the perspective of us atheists.

Please define god-worship.

 

[RedDragon94]

Not my call to make, of course, but I can't help but find it deeply ironic that so many people see fit to attempt to both claim belief in a supremely transcendent God and certainty that its transcendence can not possibly have manifested in the classic Trinity model.

That's cause the Trinity isn't only heavenly, it's God with us.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For me it's when Christians (and other theists) reduce god to a known or knowable person or being. Once this happens they tend to speak on his behalf, praising or condemning others and generally claiming to be an authority on what god wants, thinks, feels etc. Their scriptures provide enough justification for them to make such assertions, so they will say that it's not their personal opinion. Such a theist also doesn't consider themselves to be an idolater because they don't worship an idol like ancient pagan tribes etc. So they would reject my definition outright.

But for me placing limits on the limitless, is idolatry.

Politics Unfortunetly

 

[Truthseeker]

Yes, one's personal idea of God becomes "The God of all". I agree, this is a very common form of idolatry. So much so that I think it's almost inevitable among theists.

The Baha'is don't place limits on God, God is infinite and unknowable.

 

[LuisDantas]

Please define god-worship.

Arbitrary decision that something or someone should be regarded as a deity of some sort and therefore deserves some form of deference or exalted respect.

 

[Estro Felino]

It does not make logical sense to even attempt to claim that worship of Jesus as the Son-aspect of God is idolatrous until and unless one has decided that such a god conception is unproper. Who could possibly have the authority to decree such a thing? An atheist, probably. Who else? A theist who somehow feels confident enough about his or her own understanding of the proper boundaries for divine transcendence that he actually says that his God could not transcend in fact limitations of number or role that human beings can so easily imagine transcended, apparently.

.

I really thank you for this thorough analysis. Very rarely I've read so much wisdom and intellectual honesty on RF.

And I want to quote a great Catholic priest I admire, Monsignor Poma, who once said : Atheists, by denying God's existence, understand God.
And also "Jesus somehow eliminated the sacred because he said that the sacred is the human, actually".

Strictly coming from the Biblical prospective there are Christian sects that erect images of the divine and/or important Biblical figures. The problem arises from several issues:

1) The creation of idols as intercessors is forbidden.

2) The creation and/or likeness of any Biblical figure as a ”true” representation is in danger of being historically inaccurate.

3) The idea that animate objects other than God have agency.

4) The idea that there is multiplicity within the divine meaning a variation of essence (father, son, holy spirit).

Thank you for your informative feedback. Nobody can deny that Christians, especially Catholics, worship saints or objects, and this can be justly called idolatry, superstition or ignorance.
We Christians believe that the Bible was written by men, and that the God described in the OT as Lord of the armies is nothing but the allegory of a people that understands itself and its own destiny...across centuries.
In the NT we have a word, Theòs, which doesn't indicate a deity, but a metaphysical concept, the Logos, which manifests itself through Love within Creation.