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The real true fascism prevelant in the US.

PureX

Veteran Member
You really believe that buying insurance, eg, for your car
is "fascism".
Corporate conglomerates using their influence (political bribery) on legislators and the media to get laws passed forcing us to buy their products, yes. I call that an example of the ill effects of corporate fascism. But I already know that there is no possible example that you will accept.
Private utilities aren't "fascism".
Communities all across America built and paid for their own public utility services. Then the republicans sold those utilities to their wealthy cronies (the ones that paid for their election campaigns and many other perks in office) and immediately squandered the money they got from the sale (the public never saw a dime). Then the communities that had already paid for their utility company once, began paying for it all over again, to cover the new owner's mortgage. Only now they also had to pay even more to cover a handsome profit because it was no longer a public, non-profit utility, it was now a private, for-profit business. AND, they have little say anymore in how the utility is being run, because it's owned and controlled by un-elected CEOs instead of the community's elected representatives.

Yet another example of how corporate bribery so corrupted government all across America that thousands of communities were robbed of the public utilities that they had built and paid for over decades by fascist corporate practices; especially the bribery and coercion of political officials, and the subjugation of the media.

But of course no example I give is going to satisfy you, as you are clearly an apologist for capitalist greed and it's corruption of politics and media.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Corporate conglomerates using their influence (political bribery) on legislators and the media to get laws passed forcing us to buy their products, yes. I call that an example of the ill effects of corporate fascism. But I already know that there is no possible example that you will accept.
Communities all across America built and paid for their own public utility services. Then the republicans sold those utilities to their wealthy cronies (the ones that paid for their election campaigns and many other perks in office) and immediately squandered the money they got for from the sale (the public never saw a dime). Then the communities that had already paid for their utility company once, began paying for it all over again, to cover the new owner's mortgage. Only now they also had to pay even more to cover a handsome profit because it is now a private, for-profit business. AND, they have little say anymore in how the utility is being run, because it's owned and controlled by un-elected CEOs instead of the communitiy's elected representatives.

Yet another example of how corporate bribery so corrupted government all across America that thousands of communities were robbed of the public utilities that they had built and paid for by fascist corporate practices; especially the bribery and coercion of political officials, and the subjugation of the media.

But of course no example I give is going to satisfy you, as you are clearly an apologist for capitalist greed and it's corruption of politics and media.
Many claims.
No evidence examples.
Your post differs little from other foil hat conspiracy theories,
eg, Marxists are taking over, anti-God secularists are destroying
the country, Muslims are going to impose Shariah law.

I know that you believe this very strongly.
But what can you say to convince someone who
doesn't already share your fears of capitalism?
Just presenting the same rant over & over fails.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Government (not corporations) have powerful authority to
take your money & assets. They can do so simply because
you have more than they think you should.
It's legal & they get to keep the money.
https://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/other_pubs/assetforfeituretoemail.pdf
A K-9, $100K, and Twitter: How a big cash seizure at Dallas Love Field got folks talking about civil asset forfeiture
After the DEA Stole $70,000 From This Filmmaker, He Got His Money Back, Plus a $15,000 Settlement
Anti-capitalists carp paying for utilities owned by private interests,
but that's not fascism. Armed robbery by cops is.
 
Last edited:

PureX

Veteran Member
This is something I need some reference material on. I have no knowledge of this.
Start here ... "These Conservative Interest Groups Are Writing Laws for US Legislators"

These groups have been around for decades and have been meeting with and directing legislation in all 50 states on behalf of the corporate entities that fund and operate them. Various news outlets have managed to find out about and 'crashed' their secret meetings with state and federal legislators but they continue meeting and setting the legislative agenda as business as usual.
I have never experienced this. In fact, most leadership that I have worked with have invested in me, my skills, and my financial security. That's the deal, right? I help build a product they have conceptualized and they pay me in return. This model works for both of us.
Sure, as long as you're supporting their agenda, you get rewarded. But if ever you decide their agenda is no longer your agenda, they'll discard you, or even punish you to make an example for the others. Because you and your agenda is of no concern or interest to them. And many Americans think this is "normal business". That it's even praise-worthy. When in fact it's just exploitation. Even when it's mutual, it's still just exploitation.
The ultimate outcome of our economic model has yet to be seen.
No offense, but that's just silly. It's like saying the ultimate lesson of history hasn't been written, yet. By that reasoning it will never be written, because history is ongoing. It's eternal. If we are ever going to draw any lessons from it we have to do so according to where we are, now, as it's result. And where we are now is looking pretty grim for a huge number of us. Because all the trends indicate a continued division of wealth and power that CANNOT BE SUSTAINED much longer. Collapse is eminent. Is that what you have to see happen before you can learn a lesson from it? How many more people will have to suffer and die before you finally call capitalism a failure? Or maybe it'll be the whole planetary ecosystem this time.
I am not convinced a radical deconstruction of what we have is the way to go. It has weaknesses, yes. But I would caution against throwing it all out at baseline.
I see no evidence at all of any possible correction. Especially when everyone is sitting on their hands and waiting for the disaster to come before they're willing to acknowledge it, and look for real change.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Another window into governmental fascism
regarding armed theft from citizens here.
This video shows how they'll threaten
prosecution for some yet to be devised
crime if they don't get a cut of the citizen's
cash.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
More governmental fascism.....
What is the function of the TSA?
Is it to prevent dangerous things from getting on
airplanes? You'd think so. It should be.
But a deal with the DEA has TSA agents searching
luggage for cash because they & the organization
get a cut of what's found. Even with no crime being
found, they just take it because they can.
DEA Promised TSA Agent a Cut of Passengers' Seizable Cash
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
Sure, as long as you're supporting their agenda, you get rewarded. But if ever you decide their agenda is no longer your agenda, they'll discard you, or even punish you to make an example for the others. Because you and your agenda is of no concern or interest to them. And many Americans think this is "normal business". That it's even praise-worthy. When in fact it's just exploitation. Even when it's mutual, it's still just exploitation.
By becoming an employee, yes, you agree to that agenda, that is how this relationship works. This isn't unique to the US. They also have the right to terminate people just as people have a right to quit. Corporate corruption is a thing but, on the level of the worker, I just don't see it present itself in the way you are describing.

No offense, but that's just silly. It's like saying the ultimate lesson of history hasn't been written, yet. By that reasoning it will never be written, because history is ongoing. It's eternal. If we are ever going to draw any lessons from it we have to do so according to where we are, now, as it's result. And where we are now is looking pretty grim for a huge number of us. Because all the trends indicate a continued division of wealth and power that CANNOT BE SUSTAINED much longer. Collapse is eminent. Is that what you have to see happen before you can learn a lesson from it? How many more people will have to suffer and die before you finally call capitalism a failure? Or maybe it'll be the whole planetary ecosystem this time.
There are some very high level generalizations here. What, specifically, is grim for a huge number of us? What trends are you referring to? In what way is collapse eminent? What does collapse mean in this context? If I had to guess, you have several frustrations that span across multiple areas that may or may not be related to corporate corruption. Throwing it all together in a big pot is not a particularly helpful way to approach the topic (in my opinion).

I see no evidence at all of any possible correction. Especially when everyone is sitting on their hands and waiting for the disaster to come before they're willing to acknowledge it, and look for real change.
For starters, can we even accurately and specifically define the problem?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Government (not corporations) have powerful authority to
take your money & assets. They can do so simply because
you have more than they think you should.
It's legal & they get to keep the money.
https://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/other_pubs/assetforfeituretoemail.pdf
A K-9, $100K, and Twitter: How a big cash seizure at Dallas Love Field got folks talking about civil asset forfeiture
After the DEA Stole $70,000 From This Filmmaker, He Got His Money Back, Plus a $15,000 Settlement
Anti-capitalists carp paying for utilities owned by private interests,
but that's not fascism. Armed robbery by cops is.
What are your thoughts about the Donzinger case where a private corporation uses the US legal system to imprison a private person they have beef with?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What are your thoughts about the Donzinger case where a private corporation uses the US legal system to imprison a private person they have beef with?
I'm unfamiliar with it, & will search.

I found....
Lawyer Steven Donziger gets six-month sentence for contempt in Chevron battle
His problem is having violated a court order.
That's not something any corporation did to him.
A government run court did it...or do you claim that Chevron controlled the court?
Excerpted....
Steven Donziger, the US indigenous rights campaigner and lawyer who spent decades battling the energy firm Chevron over pollution in the Ecuadorian rainforest, was sentenced to six months’ imprisonment on Friday for criminal contempt charges arising from a lawsuit brought by the oil giant.

Donziger, who was disbarred from practicing law in New York last year, was found guilty in May of defying court orders, including by failing to turn over his computer and other electronic devices.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member

A usually impartial source. You will find little in the MSM and I have to admit that the independent media seem a bit biased in this case (i.e. are clearly on Donzigers side).
See post #92.

I've been to court a few times.
One risks immediate jail if one violates a court order.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member

A usually impartial source. You will find little in the MSM and I have to admit that the independent media seem a bit biased in this case (i.e. are clearly on Donzigers side).
Legal Eagle is pretty good, though. I have watched several of his videos in the past and he seems on top of it.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Legal Eagle is pretty good, though. I have watched several of his videos in the past and he seems on top of it.
How does the video address the guy's contempt of court?
It's hard to imagine this being Chevron's fault.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
US suspends 4th Amendment rights against
warrantless searches within border. But they
claim the border is 100 miles wide. This means
that 2/3 of US population can be stopped &
searched by feds even with no suspicion or
warrant.
Fed agents have unqualified immunity from
suits, BTW (ie, they cannot be sued at all).
My entire state is in the border.
Corporations cannot do this.
The US border is 100 miles wide
us-100-mile-border.jpg
 
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