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The Real Story of Jesus

Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Dayv said:
you present an argument that you know the true story of jesus, prove it! Give some actual logical evidence. All you've said is 'the qur'an is right because the qur'an says so.' If this is your reasoning, why do you even believe what you believe?
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Calm down Dayv.

A few days ago there was another thread on this folder titled "Are we of blind faith?"

This was my answer at the start of the thread:

QUOTE

Different people reach faith in different ways, but generally-speaking there is a point in one's search for the Truth when one is totally convinced.

Before reaching that point, it's good to keep a totally objective position and an open mind.

After that point, I wouldn't describe it as "blind faith", but would suggest a believer becomes more subjective, as he or she is more convinced of the path they are following. The more convinced they are, the more subjective they become.

When should this subjectivity change?

I suggest that this would happen if one feels they are no longer "convinced" as before. At that point it would be time to re-assess and do more reasearch, reading and thinking. Seeking more knowledge in a systematic and logical way (imo) is the key to finding the right way.

UNQUOTE

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21521&page=1

All the best.
 
Dayv

Dayv

Member
If at any point you no longer question yourself than you are no longer searching for truth but settling for a simpler falacy. To stop questioning, and to be 'totally convinced' are two huge signs of ignorance. You are then assuming that you are completely right and your reasoning is absolute. NEVER stop questioning! NEVER be totally convinced! Doubt yourself before you doubt anything else.

Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it.
-Andre Gide
 
Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Too much doubt is counter-productive Dayv.

When a believer's faith is strong, and he or she is 100% convinced of his/her faith and at the same time totally honest, there is no room for doubt.

God is Our Creator, there is no doubt about it.

All the best.
 
Dayv

Dayv

Member
Belief in a fairy tale is anti-productive. No matter how much I believe something, even 100% (which is an imaginary idea thrown in where it doesn't belong) it amounts to crap. A huge number of children around the world believe Santa's coming this Christmas, but reindeer still don't fly.

And yes, there is doubt about that, right here! I doubt it!

-and neongenesis, this is about the myth of Jesus, it's about how it is just that, a myth
 
TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Dayv said:
Belief in a fairy tale is anti-productive. No matter how much I believe something, even 100% (which is an imaginary idea thrown in where it doesn't belong) it amounts to crap. A huge number of children around the world believe Santa's coming this Christmas, but reindeer still don't fly.

And yes, there is doubt about that, right here! I doubt it!

-and neongenesis, this is about the myth of Jesus, it's about how it is just that, a myth
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Cordoba is right about his faith and you are right too because you can't simply believe in somthing just because someone said it's right, isn't it?

So, what kind of prove we need here to reach to a common point as a start? :rolleyes:

- Historical proof?
- logic proof?
- anything else???

by the way, are you arguing here about that Jesus dosn't exist, is it why people believe in him or the problem is only about the islamic view of this issue?
 
R

Radar

Active Member
The Truth said:
Cordoba is right about his faith and you are right too because you can't simply believe in somthing just because someone said it's right, isn't it?

So, what kind of prove we need here to reach to a common point as a start? :rolleyes:

- Historical proof?
- logic proof?
- anything else???

by the way, are you arguing here about that Jesus dosn't exist, is it why people believe in him or the problem is only about the islamic view of this issue?
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Don't ask which proof someone would like just provide some real proof, if you have any. And I am sure you believe you have some so go ahead and give it. I get tired people asking if you want proof then providing nothing. And have some other sourse than the quran and circular logic.
 
Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Neongenesis said:
Maybe this thread should be about the myth of Jesus.
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Hello Neongenesis:

Jesus peace be upon him is not a myth.

He was a real human being who lived 20 centuries ago.

Why do you think he's a myth?
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Cordoba said:
There is no doubt that Jesus, peace be upon him, lived 20 centuries ago, as there is plenty of historical records.
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That is complete nonsense.

Cordoba said:
From a quick Google search, you may wish to see for example: ...
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I'm sorry, Cordoba, but the laundry list of so-called proof gets more and more tiresome. If you are aware of an abundance of evidence, simply share the one that you find most probative. We'll evaluate it together, and then move on to the next. You'll soon find that "The Real Story of Jesus" is that all we have is story.
 
Dayv

Dayv

Member
Yeah, I'm sick of following links that seem to pretty much just recap the same story. I'm also tired of people (Cordoba in this case) simply saying either "this is obvious" or "there is plenty of proof" and then only providing another link to another recap of the same myth.

These are all just stories. You may read them and believe that these things actually occured without anything more than a scripture saying so, but we need more than this to believe. You keep saying that your god is the creator and that jesus did exist and that these ideas are obvious, but how are they obvious? When you read and believe them, why do you? What makes these stories so obviously true? Just saying it doesn't make it true, how many times must I say this, no one seems to get that.
JUST SAYING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE
 
Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Dayv said:
What makes these stories so obviously true? Just saying it doesn't make it true, how many times must I say this, no one seems to get that.
JUST SAYING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE
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Question: How many people in this world believe that Jesus peace be upon him did indeed live 20 centuries ago?

Answer: At least half the world's population, that's around 1.5 billion Muslims and more than 2 billion Christians.

That Jesus peace be upon him lived 20 centuries ago is beyond doubt, but this is not the topic of this thread.

What we're dealing with here is the fact that Jesus peace be upon him was a human being, and his true story (for those interested) as detailed by God in The Qur'an is here:

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/Prophet/isa.htm
 
Dayv

Dayv

Member
First of all, I don't know how accurate these numbers are. Second, of what matter is this? So because a lot of people believe something it's automatically true? If the majority was always right, democracy would create a utopia.

How many times are you going to keep saying that this is beyond doubt, or that there is no doubt? There is doubt, it isn't beyond doubt, because there's at least another half of the world that doesn't believe this story is true. I am showing you doubt, but you are only repeating yourself with the utmost arrogence. As I just said in my last post:
JUST SAYING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE

You can't say there is no doubt because I'm right here showing you obvious doubt. You have no doubt, fine, but you aren't everyone, can you understand this? This is doubt, I am presenting doubt, there is doubt.
 
Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Dayv, you're free to doubt what you like.

More than half of humanity are certain that Jesus was real, not a myth like some people claim.

You are free to think otherwise, if you like.

All the best.
 
R

Radar

Active Member
So if half think or believe it is true and the other half don't who is right? And where is the proof besides in any religious book or some bias website. Oh yeah... there isn't any..... And just because a majority believe something does not make it true. But you believe what you will.
 
Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Dear Radar:

This thread is not about whether Jesus peace be upon him existed or not.

It's on his story for those who know he did exist.

First: The Birth of Mary - Qur'anic

Allah the Almighty said: Allah chose Adam, Noah, the family of Abraham and the family of Imran above the Alamin (mankind and jinns) (of their times). Offspring, one of the other, and Allah is the All-Hearer, All-Knower.

(Remember) when the wife of Imran said: "0 my Lord! I have vowed to You what (the child that) is in my womb to be dedicated for Your services (free from all worldly work; to serve Your Place of worship), so accept this, from me. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knowing."

Then when she delivered her (child Mary), she said: "0 my Lord! I have delivered a female child," - and Allah knew better what she delivered, - "and the male is not like the female, and I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge with You (Allah) for her and for her offspring from Satan, the outcast." Surah 3: 33-36
 
R

Radar

Active Member
I know what the tread is about.... I was just responding to what you said. So if half of the world believes the story of Jesus and the other half don't who is correct? And I see you couldn't stay out of any religious book to try and provide some proof. But don't feel the need to reply because I really don't care.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Cordoba said:
More than half of humanity are certain that Jesus was real, not a myth like some people claim. You are free to think otherwise, if you like.

All the best.
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What a brilliant and forceful argument, clearly worthy of being systematically and vigorously applied. So, for example ...
'More than half of humanity are [sic] certain that Islam is false, not the true religion like some people claim. You are free to think otherwise, if you like.'​
All the best.
 
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