• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Rational Bible: Exodus

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
Dennis Prager's Exodus commentary is the first of his five volumes on the Torah. Reviews seem generally positive and it is selling very well.

He may have started with Exodus not Genesis, because the former contains the Ten Commandments.

Here is how his Introduction begins:

"Most people—especially in their younger years—pass through a difficult time with one or both of their parents. In my teen years and twenties, I was one of them. But no matter how I felt, there was never a time I did not honor my parents. For example, from the age of twenty-one, when I left my parents’ home, I called my parents every week of their lives.

I treated my parents with such respect because I always believed God had commanded me to do so: “Honor your father and mother” (Commandment Five of the Ten Commandments). The Torah—as the first five books of the Bible have always been known in Hebrew—commands us to love our neighbor, to love God, and to love the stranger; but we are never commanded to love our parents. We are commanded to honor them (and we are not commanded to honor anyone else).

Why do I begin this introduction to a Bible commentary with this personal story?

Because it encapsulates why I have devoted so much of my life to explaining the Torah: because of its central message—that God is good and demands we be good."

A little more from the Intro:

“I have been teaching the Torah for much of my adult life and have devoted decades to writing this explanation of, and commentary on, the Torah.
I have done so because I believe if people properly understand the Torah and attempt to live by its values and precepts, the world will be an infinitely kinder and more just place.
All my life I have been preoccupied—almost obsessed—with the problem of evil: people deliberately hurting other people. At the age of sixteen, I wrote in my diary that I wanted to devote my life “to influencing people to the good.” That mission has animated my life. In a nutshell, I love goodness and hate evil. My favorite verse in the Bible is 'Those of you who love God—hate evil' (Psalms 97:10).”
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Dennis Prager's Exodus commentary is the first of his five volumes on the Torah. Reviews seem generally positive and it is selling very well.

He may have started with Exodus not Genesis, because the former contains the Ten Commandments.

Here is how his Introduction begins:

"Most people—especially in their younger years—pass through a difficult time with one or both of their parents. In my teen years and twenties, I was one of them. But no matter how I felt, there was never a time I did not honor my parents. For example, from the age of twenty-one, when I left my parents’ home, I called my parents every week of their lives.

I treated my parents with such respect because I always believed God had commanded me to do so: “Honor your father and mother” (Commandment Five of the Ten Commandments). The Torah—as the first five books of the Bible have always been known in Hebrew—commands us to love our neighbor, to love God, and to love the stranger; but we are never commanded to love our parents. We are commanded to honor them (and we are not commanded to honor anyone else).

Why do I begin this introduction to a Bible commentary with this personal story?

Because it encapsulates why I have devoted so much of my life to explaining the Torah: because of its central message—that God is good and demands we be good."

A little more from the Intro:

“I have been teaching the Torah for much of my adult life and have devoted decades to writing this explanation of, and commentary on, the Torah.
I have done so because I believe if people properly understand the Torah and attempt to live by its values and precepts, the world will be an infinitely kinder and more just place.
All my life I have been preoccupied—almost obsessed—with the problem of evil: people deliberately hurting other people. At the age of sixteen, I wrote in my diary that I wanted to devote my life “to influencing people to the good.” That mission has animated my life. In a nutshell, I love goodness and hate evil. My favorite verse in the Bible is 'Those of you who love God—hate evil' (Psalms 97:10).”


But the Bible starts with Genesis not Exodus because it unfolds...
 

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
But the Bible starts with Genesis not Exodus because it unfolds...

Quite so, but Prager is not writing the Torah but a commentary on it. His reasons are as follows:

“The primary reason I began my commentary with the second book of the Torah, Exodus, and not the first, Genesis, is that Exodus contains the Ten Commandments, the most important moral code in world history, and the central moral code of the Torah. If people lived by those ten laws alone, the world would be almost devoid of all man-made suffering.
In addition, Genesis is almost all narrative, while Exodus is, in equal parts, narrative, laws, and theology.”
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Poor reason.

The Bible (even the Torah) is not really about the law. It's about humanity's relationship with God. Our covenant.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Quite so, but Prager is not writing the Torah but a commentary on it.
I'm not a Prager fan. In fact, I rather dislike him, but this is hardly a reason not to read his commentary if it is, indeed, informed and valuable. So why don't you give us a couple of examples of information and/or insights that you found unique to his works? Put differently, why should I choose Prager over Sarna or Plaut or Fox or Alter or Friedman or any number of other highly acclaimed translators or commentators?
 

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
Poor reason.

The Bible (even the Torah) is not really about the law. It's about humanity's relationship with God. Our covenant.

And what sort of relationship do we have by ignoring the Ten Commandments? Besides, Prager is only giving his reason for the sequencing of his comments.

Read the book.
 

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
I'm not a Prager fan. In fact, I rather dislike him, but this is hardly a reason not to read his commentary if it is, indeed, informed and valuable. So why don't you give us a couple of examples of information and/or insights that you found unique to his works? Put differently, why should I choose Prager over Sarna or Plaut or Fox or Alter or Friedman or any number of other highly acclaimed translators or commentators?

Outside my wheelhouse. My first choice and practice is Mahayana Buddhism, so I am encouraging the reading of anything that encourages better personal ethics & wisdom.

PS - Just noticed at the Amazon Look Inside place he has in his Introduction a section on Why Read this Commentary?

I only have an e-pub version, so am limited to 200? or so words per post, but I could paste a sequence of small sections, if you wish.
 
Last edited:

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Outside my wheelhouse. My first choice and practice is Mahayana Buddhism, so I am encouraging the reading of anything that encourages better personal ethics & wisdom.
One would have hoped that you could have found such work somewhere in your wheelhouse.
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
[QUOTE="Jayhawker Soule, post: 5647314, member: 264]Put differently, why should I choose Prager over Sarna or Plaut or Fox or Alter or Friedman or any number of other highly acclaimed translators or commentators?[/QUOTE]

You shouldn't.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
“The primary reason I began my commentary with the second book of the Torah, Exodus, and not the first, Genesis, is that Exodus contains the Ten Commandments, the most important moral code in world history.....

Just my two cents: while most of the Commandments are about controlling our actions, the 10th Commandment....about not coveting our fellow man’s wife....is about controlling our thoughts.

And that’s usually where actions start, with our thinking about them.

Like King David with Bathsheba.

Appreciate the OP
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Just my two cents: while most of the Commandments are about controlling our actions, the 10th Commandment....about not coveting our fellow man’s wife....is about controlling our thoughts.
... at least until we recognize that wives were, among other things, property.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
He may have started with Exodus not Genesis, because the former contains the Ten Commandments.
What you say is not wrong, but you miss another factor. The story of the Exodus is THE story of the Jewish people. It is the story of the identity of the People of Israel. It is what made us who we are. Any good Gentile beloved by God can worship God and be a good person. But only the Jews were delivered from slavery in Egypt by God with a mighty hand, and given his Torah at Mt Sinai. Can others read our story, be inspired by it, become better people, create a better world, and come closer to God? We certainly hope so! But they are still essentially reading a story about *us.*
 
Last edited:

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Poor reason.

The Bible (even the Torah) is not really about the law. It's about humanity's relationship with God. Our covenant.
If you think the Torah is not about the Law, you must be reading some different Torah. And the Torah contains God's covenant with Israel. There is nothing in there that says all of humanity must refrain from eating lobster.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
If you think the Torah is not about the Law, you must be reading some different Torah. And the Torah contains God's covenant with Israel. There is nothing in there that says all of humanity must refrain from eating lobster.

But Jesus revealed that we can eat anything that we please.....
when the Pharisees gathered together to him, with some of the scribes, who had come from Jerusalem, they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands defiled, that is, unwashed…. And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not live according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with hands defiled?”…. And he called the people to him again, and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him…. Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:1-5, 14-19; RSV)
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
But Jesus revealed that we can eat anything that we please.....
when the Pharisees gathered together to him, with some of the scribes, who had come from Jerusalem, they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands defiled, that is, unwashed…. And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not live according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with hands defiled?”…. And he called the people to him again, and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him…. Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:1-5, 14-19; RSV)
Look this is NOT my sacred text. I should really stay out of this. Im only going to comment since you asked, but honestly you need to figure this out for yourself.

In my comparative religion studies, I've read the gospels, and have found them to be very Jewish. I have found Jesus to be an observant Jew, and I think you are radically misinterpreting the above passage, especially if you are going to try to make it mesh with other parts of the gospels.

For one thing, it is obvious that Jesus ritually washed his hands. The only people that were not washing their hands were SOME of his disciples.

Jesus took the opportunity to stomp on the hypocrisy of some of the religious leaders. If you read the gospels all the way through), you will see that he found some obeyed the technicalities of Oral Torah while forgetting the basics of Torah, and therefore he rightfully called them hypocrites. He did not like it that they were going behind the disciples back and badmuuthing them -- this is a terrible sin, "evil tongue."

In Jewish thinking, evil tongue is put on par with murder, because it assassinates a person's character. Jesus did something similar. It made evil tongue a worse sin than breaking kashrut -- "It is not what you put into your mouth that defiles you, but what comes out of your mouth."

In general, you can accept it as a rule of thumb that Jesus
1. supported keeping all of the 613 laws of the Torah, since he said that not a single brushstroke would pass away as long as there was heaven and earth (or something like that.)
2. supported keeping the Oral Torah too -- he said the Pharisees sat on Moses seat and his followers were to do EVERYTHING they taught. (I'm sure if you google that you'll find where it is, even if I don't have the wording exact.)

So yeah, Jesus was a Jew who practiced Judaism. Christians forget that sometimes.

The part about "(Thus he declared all foods clean,)" is a comment added later, and is merely interpretive, and I would not give it the same weight as the rest of the chapter since it was not written by the same author.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Look this is NOT my sacred text. I should really stay out of this. Im only going to comment since you asked, but honestly you need to figure this out for yourself.

In my comparative religion studies, I've read the gospels, and have found them to be very Jewish. I have found Jesus to be an observant Jew, and I think you are radically misinterpreting the above passage, especially if you are going to try to make it mesh with other parts of the gospels.

For one thing, it is obvious that Jesus ritually washed his hands. The only people that were not washing their hands were SOME of his disciples.

Jesus took the opportunity to stomp on the hypocrisy of some of the religious leaders. If you read the gospels all the way through), you will see that he found some obeyed the technicalities of Oral Torah while forgetting the basics of Torah, and therefore he rightfully called them hypocrites. He did not like it that they were going behind the disciples back and badmuuthing them -- this is a terrible sin, "evil tongue."

In Jewish thinking, evil tongue is put on par with murder, because it assassinates a person's character. Jesus did something similar. It made evil tongue a worse sin than breaking kashrut -- "It is not what you put into your mouth that defiles you, but what comes out of your mouth."

In general, you can accept it as a rule of thumb that Jesus
1. supported keeping all of the 613 laws of the Torah, since he said that not a single brushstroke would pass away as long as there was heaven and earth (or something like that.)
2. supported keeping the Oral Torah too -- he said the Pharisees sat on Moses seat and his followers were to do EVERYTHING they taught. (I'm sure if you google that you'll find where it is, even if I don't have the wording exact.)

So yeah, Jesus was a Jew who practiced Judaism. Christians forget that sometimes.

The part about "(Thus he declared all foods clean,)" is a comment added later, and is merely interpretive, and I would not give it the same weight as the rest of the chapter since it was not written by the same author.

But his words; "Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on," reveals that we can eat any food. Even Paul says that we should eat anything that is set before us, but if by eating certain foods in front of someone weak in the faith, who is offended by what we eat, then for that weak persons sake, we should refrain from partaking that food in their presence.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
But his words; "Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on," reveals that we can eat any food. Even Paul says that we should eat anything that is set before us, but if by eating certain foods in front of someone weak in the faith, who is offended by what we eat, then for that weak persons sake, we should refrain from partaking that food in their presence.
I think that if you interpret it this way, then you run into the problem of having the gospels contradict themselves, since Jesus said nothing in the Law was abrogated. But again, it is your choice how to interpret it, since it is after all your religion.

Remember that Paul was a missionary to Gentiles, not to Jews. Somewhere in the New Testament, Paul, who was a Jew, testified in a court that he has kept every Jewish law -- how could he do that if he believes that Jews could eat anything? Remember that the 613 laws of the Torah were not given to the world; they were given to Israel. You can eat all the shrimp you want and not sin. This has to do with Judaism, and that's MY realm.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
I think that if you interpret it this way, then you run into the problem of having the gospels contradict themselves, since Jesus said nothing in the Law was abrogated. But again, it is your choice how to interpret it, since it is after all your religion.

Remember that Paul was a missionary to Gentiles, not to Jews. Somewhere in the New Testament, Paul, who was a Jew, testified in a court that he has kept every Jewish law -- how could he do that if he believes that Jews could eat anything? Remember that the 613 laws of the Torah were not given to the world; they were given to Israel. You can eat all the shrimp you want and not sin. This has to do with Judaism, and that's MY realm.

Well Jesus was a Jew and the Lord through Him was speaking to the Jews when he said that nothing you eat can defile you, but the Jews rejected the Lord who had put his WORDS into the mouth of his chosen prophet, the man Jesus, See Deuteronomy 18: 18-19.

That is why the Lord said through another of his prophets Zechariah in 11: 12-17; I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the LORD. 14Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the family bond between Judah and Israel. 15Then the LORD said to me, "Take again the equipment of a foolish shepherd. 16For I am going to raise up a shepherd over the land who will not care for the lost, or seek the young, or heal the injured, or feed the healthy, but will eat the meat of the choice sheep, tearing off their hooves. 17"Woe to the worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! May his arm be completely withered, his right eye totally blinded!"

The Jews have been rejected by the Lord, and now the worthless shepherd was firmly established in the 4th century C E.
 
Top