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The Rapture Will Never Occur

CRB

Member
Mark,
The Rapture requires the precedent of pre-millenial thinking. Hence it is incompatible with R.C. theology as that's post-millenial.
I do think that Dispensationalism is going to change and the Rapture will be modified or eliminated in coming years. Pre-millenial thinking, as I see it, is the best historical-grammatical conclusion. But it has some lacks some things both historically and exegetically.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Mark,
The Rapture requires the precedent of pre-millenial thinking. Hence it is incompatible with R.C. theology as that's post-millenial.
I do think that Dispensationalism is going to change and the Rapture will be modified or eliminated in coming years. Pre-millenial thinking, as I see it, is the best historical-grammatical conclusion. But it has some lacks some things both historically and exegetically.

Actually, the rapture can be applied to any type of millenial thinking.
 

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
You know how we pre millenialists say how the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and antichrist will set up his abomination in there half way through the week of years prophesied in Daniel, check this out:

Hippolytus on Antichrist (Died 235 ad):

5. But as time now presses for the consideration of the question immediately in hand, and as what has been already said in the introduction with regard to the glory of God, may suffice, it is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, the coming of Antichrist is; on what occasion and at what time that implores one shall be revealed; and whence and from what I tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in the Scripture; and how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he shall stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he shall glorify himself as God; and what his end shall be; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord shall be revealed froth heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world shall be; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints is to be, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire.
6. Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion,2 on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king,2 John 18:37 so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb;2 John 1:29 so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad,2 and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple,2 John 2:19 and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand.

Just thought it would make an interesting read.

Oh yeah and this quote was interesting too:

How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!

Seems he had the right translation. (I know it's off topic)

27. As these things, then, are in the future, and as the ten toes of the image are equivalent to (so many) democracies,6 and the ten horns of the fourth beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal survey

See also how the Daniel prophecy is regarded as future:
For he says, "And one week will make9 a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst (half) of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease."9 Daniel 9:27 By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world of which week the two prophetsEnoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1, 260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations.

47. For John says, "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."10 That is the half of the week whereof Daniel spoke.

64. These things, then, being to come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope

And of course the catching up of the living (THE RAPTURE):
66. Concerning the resurrection of the righteous, Paul also speaks thus in writing to the Thessalonians: "We would not have you to be ignorant concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow not even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive (and) remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice and trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive (and) remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord."17
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0516.htm
 

FFH

Veteran Member
FFH said:
She is responsible for coining the term "rapture" to describe this event
Hope the people that translated the bible into Latin didn't read that.;)
Okay, so that was a bad word choice. How's this?

She is responsible for ascribing the term "rapture" to describe this event.

Better?

BTW the lady's name was [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Margaret Macdonald.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Thanks for finding her name.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
cov-4-27-2004-P-GS.jpg
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Here are a few verses on the Rapture: (rapture means "caught up" taken from the latin: rapiemur, translated from the greek: harpazo). There are about 40 verses on the Rapture in the NT, and many others on the 2nd Coming, two very different events, in the Rapture we meet Jesus in the air, and at the 2nd Coming He splits the Mount of Olives in two with His feet. By the way, Margaret McDonald was not the first to mention this, Ephraem wrote of it a thousand years earlier, and the early church believed it too.

At the Rapture:
Christ comes in the AIR, FOR His own,
all Christians are raptured and taken to the Father's house,
there is no judgement on earth,
the Church is taken to Heaven,
its imminent, no signs,
only for believers,
time of joy,
BEFORE the "day of wrath" (Tribulation),
NO mention of Satan,
there IS the Judgement Seat of Christ,
Marriage of the Lamb,
ONLY His own see Him,
and the Tribulation begins soon after.

At the 2nd Coming:
Christ comes WITH His own to EARTH,
no one is raptured, resurrected saints don't see the Father's house,
Christ judges inhabitants of earth,
sets up His kindgom on earth,
Cannot occur for at least 7 years,
many signs,
affects everyone,
a time of mourning,
immediately AFTER the Tribulation,
Satan is BOUND for 1,000 yrs.,
NO time or place for judgment seat,
His bride ascends WITH Him,
EVERY eye will see Him,
the 1,000 yr. Kingdom of Christ will begin.


John 14
1"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God[a]; trust also in me. 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

I Corinthians
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep (die), but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

I Thessalonians 4
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
  1. 1 Thessalonians 1:10
    And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
  2. 1 Thessalonians 5:9
    For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
  3. Revelation 3
    15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Mat 24:32
(32) Now learn a parable of the fig (Skanda - Gita) tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Mat 24:37
(37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man (must be born) be.

Luk 11:29
(29) And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas (Zan-Nun - Quran) the prophet.

Rev 11:18-19
(18) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
(19) And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Dan 7:13
(13) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
 

anders

Well-Known Member
Is this rapture/trib thing even known, much less believed in, anywhere outside of USAmerica? My first encounter sure was on Internet fora frequented by USAians, and I know of no Swedish word that comes close to this religious 'rapture' (I'm a professional translator and was a Lutheran Evangelical Christian for some 60 years).
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
The Rapture itself is a very pleasant concept for most Christians, for they have this belief that no matter how hectic life gets, in only a few years at some surprising time, Jesus will return and all the 'good Christians' will go straight to heaven. They will disappear while all others are left on this world, cold and alone.

But when you crack down to it, the Rapture actually isn't real. Why?
Not because it doesn't make sense or have evidential truth, but because of how and when it was actually added to the Bible.

The Rapture was added to the Bible in the 1800s after a young girl had a dream. Yes, a dream. Her dream was interpreted to come up with the concept of the Rapture, and the most absurd part is people believed it and added it to the Bible!

It was a young girls dream! If my dreams were taken so literally, then the world would be one odd and ridiculous place. When something as minuscule as a dream is then transformed into a concept one must realize that the Rapture will truly never happen.

And I first was given light of this through a program on the History channel, I don't remember the name, but I shall find an article to prove that I'm not snowballing an idiotic idea.

Of all the things that could be possible from the Bible, the Rapture, which wasn't even there originally, has the least chance of happening, and I think its safe to say that it never will.
Why would you even be concerned about something you don't believe in , if indeed your truly agnostic/atheist
Is it really a question of whether it does or does'nt happen,but what will matter will be what happens the next life and it would be ironic ,yet not amusing ,if the very things you refuted and disbelieved in this life about God where the very things that could have saved you.
Maybe you should be asking if I die,where will I go,rememebring your disbelief in heaven ,judgment day does not make it nonexistent,
I would, say read the scriptures where Christ talks about returning to the earth the twinkling of an eye and all other scriptures that pertain to his return,but the bible says the man without God will not recieve nor can he know the things of God,heaven, hell,sin,etc they are spiritually discerned.
Now you may be very spiritual,that's not the spirituality the bible talks about, but if you don't have the Holy Spirit drawing you to God and illuminating the scriptures, it will be just a book of fairy tales and things to mock,refute ,ridicule so be careful on which ground you stand.
The bible warns, I don't
 

Jistyr

Inquisitive Youngin'
Why would you even be concerned about something you don't believe in , if indeed your truly agnostic/atheist
Is it really a question of whether it does or does'nt happen,but what will matter will be what happens the next life and it would be ironic ,yet not amusing ,if the very things you refuted and disbelieved in this life about God where the very things that could have saved you.
Maybe you should be asking if I die,where will I go,rememebring your disbelief in heaven ,judgment day does not make it nonexistent,
I would, say read the scriptures where Christ talks about returning to the earth the twinkling of an eye and all other scriptures that pertain to his return,but the bible says the man without God will not recieve nor can he know the things of God,heaven, hell,sin,etc they are spiritually discerned.
Now you may be very spiritual,that's not the spirituality the bible talks about, but if you don't have the Holy Spirit drawing you to God and illuminating the scriptures, it will be just a book of fairy tales and things to mock,refute ,ridicule so be careful on which ground you stand.
The bible warns, I don't
If I must follow that of which is in the Bible and trust its word, what of the words of other sacred texts? The Qur'an and Tanakh have just as many beliefs in them for me to follow. Do not attempt to ignore that your Bible stands alone among many sacred texts and the chance that it is correct out of them is extremely unlikely.
 

CRB

Member
Perhaps I've missed something, then.
Do you have an example of amill or postmill theology with a "rapture"?
I'd enjoy the investigation. Thanks.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
By the way, Margaret McDonald was not the first to mention this, Ephraem wrote of it a thousand years earlier,

Really? Not sure who you mean by this, but if what you say is true then you should have no trouble providing a source, should you? Baseless assertions don't generally make for a good argument.
and the early church believed it too.
This is certainly untrue. All forms of chiliasm (millenialism) were condemned as heresy in the early Church. There were individuals who held to some chiliast ideas, even some Fathers, but these were never generally believed by the Church at large. The Patristic concensus, the mind of the Church, supports no form of Chiliasm, and certainly not the Rapture, which was unheard of prior to the 19th century.

James
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Doh!!! Christianity confused me and didn’t read and digest for my self, now just did makes sense…..
The rapture is the Fire coming…..those who are wise in ways of the lord will be left and those who follow Balaam teachings, or have any of the marks given, I presume from what is written will be removed those who remain, will shine like the firmament.....anything else would mean Yeshua doesn't match all the other main prophets, which he does and clearly as one story, not three.:angel2:
 
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