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The Rapture a Glorious Event

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by FFH, May 3, 2007.

  1. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Scriptures state clearly, "caught up in the clouds," not caught up in the spirit, as Baha'i religion seems to teach, which they claim has already happened and this is not just common to Baha'i, I've heard this from JW's and other religious teachers..
     
  2. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    You didn't answer the question and your previous answer isn't satisfactory. The fact Christ said something doesn't support your interpretation because you are interpreting the very thing he said. It's circular.
     
  3. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    I believe the interpretation is more shallow-thinking literalism-ridden nonsense.

    To be be swept up is to be transported by enthusiasm, love, faith, not a Star Trek matter transmission.

    Such belief calls for one to give up rational thought, and that is not the intent of the scripture.

    regards,
    Scott
     
  4. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    So explain the "clouds" part. You guys are the ones interpreting scripture to fit your particular belief, not me..

    "caught up IN THE CLOUDS" How am I or can anyone misinterprete that ???

    It boggles my mind every time I hear someone disagree with me..

    Am I the only one who sees what's clearly written there ??? How can this be over looked or misinterpreted ??? It does not make any sense...

    "CAUGHT UP" "IN THE CLOUDS" "IN THE AIR," there is no way a person can misinterprete this.

    1 Thessalonians 4: 17
    Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Most choose what they want to believe, not what is clearly written as inspired truth..
     
  5. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    So you're a literalist? Did God create the world in 7 days? Was there a talking serpent in the garden?
     
  6. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    I'm stating exactly what is written in scripture, which needs no interpretation, it's as clear as day...
     
  7. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    In this instance yes, I take it literally to mean what it says and there is no reason to take it any other way. Other different scriptures verify this teaching.

    I'll pull up another one in Revelation, which states, WE shall descend with Christ when he returns to earth to set up his kingdom...

    Ths proves that we were taken up into the clouds or heaven or whatever while the wicked were destroyed and the earth cleansed..

    When the earth is burned with fire and a new heavens and a new earth are created, do you think anyone will be on it ??? of course not, so there will be a time when we will be taken off this earth, prior to the millenial reign of Christ.....
     
  8. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Was the earth created in 7 days God's time and 1000 years our time, yes...
    Did Balaam's donkey talk to him ?? yes, so it's not a stretch of the imagination to think a Satan possessed serpent "beguiled" Eve and got her to eat the forbidden fruit..
     
  9. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    How many thousands of denominations are there? It's because of interpretation - sometimes over single words that seem so plain.
     
  10. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    Laughable.

    I just searched "rapture" in the Gospel library and there were 0 hits for your claims.
     
  11. Comprehend

    Comprehend Res Ipsa Loquitur

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    For some reason when I read this, I got a little sick... (imagine throw-up smilie here)
     
  12. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Of course it won't be there, I only use that phrase to be on the same page with people not of our faith...

    It's just a term describing this event. Go ahead and do another search using the phrase "caught up"

    I'll do the same...
     
  13. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you look up the phrase "bologna"
     
  14. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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  15. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    FFH,

    Clouds are symbolic for a veil between God and man obscuring man's perception. To be caught up in the veil means the veil thins and we see better.

    Symbolism is your friend.

    "It is evident that the changes brought about in every Dispensation constitute the dark clouds that intervene between the eye of man's understanding and the Divine Luminary which shineth forth from the day spring of the Divine Essence. Consider how men for generations have been blindly imitating their fathers, and have been trained according to such ways and manners as have been laid down by the dictates of their Faith. Were these men, therefore, to discover suddenly that a Man, Who hath been living in their midst, Who, with respect to every human limitation 27 hath been their equal, had risen to abolish every established principle imposed by their Faith -- principles by which for centuries they have been disciplined, and every opposer and denier of which they have come to regard as infidel, profligate and wicked, -- they would of a certainty be veiled and hindered from acknowledging His truth. Such things are as "clouds" that veil the eyes of those whose inner being hath not tasted the Salsabil of detachment, nor drunk from the Kawthar of the knowledge of God. Such men, when acquainted with those circumstances, become so veiled that, without the least question, they pronounce the Manifestation of God as infidel, and sentence Him to death. You must have heard of such things taking place all down the ages, and are now observing them in these days."
    (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 26)

    "It behoveth us, therefore, to make the utmost endeavor, that, by God's invisible assistance, these dark veils, these clouds of Heaven-sent trials, may not hinder us from beholding the beauty of His shining Countenance, and that we may recognize Him only by His own Self."
    (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 27)

    "73. O MY FRIEND!
    Thou art the daystar of the heavens of My holiness, let not the defilement of the world eclipse thy splendor. Rend asunder the veil of heedlessness, that from behind the clouds thou mayest emerge resplendent and array all things with the apparel of life."
    (Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)

    "Yet, when the most great veil was rent asunder, and the Ancient Beauty came unto you in the clouds of God's decree, ye repudiated Him in Whom ye had believed aforetime. Woe betide you, O company of infidels! Fear ye God, and nullify not the truth with the things ye possess. When the luminary of divine verses dawneth upon you from the horizon of the Pen of the King of all names and attributes, fall ye prostrate upon your faces before God, the Lord of the Worlds. For to bow down in adoration at the threshold of His door is indeed better for you than the worship of both worlds, and to submit to His Revelation is more profitable unto you 53 than whatsoever hath been created in the heavens and on the earth."
    (Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 52)

    "I hope that you will turn with unclouded eyes towards the Sun of Truth, beholding not the things of earth, lest your hearts be attracted to the worthless and passing pleasures of the world; let that Sun give you of His strength, then will not the clouds of prejudice veil His illumination from your eyes! Then will the Sun be without clouds for you. "
    (Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 44)

    "The veil hath fallen away, the curtain is lifted, the clouds have parted, the Lord of Lords is in plain sight -- yet all hath passed the sinners by."
    (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 14)

    "Consider the radiant glory of the great solar center of our planetary system: how wonderful the sight, how its splendor illumines vision until clouds and mists veil it from the eye. In the same way, the Sun of Truth becomes veiled and hidden by the superstitions and imaginations of human minds. When the sun rises, no matter from what dawning point on the horizon it appears -- northeast, east, southeast -- the haze and mists disperse, and we have clear vision of its glory mounting to the zenith."
    (Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 78)




    Regards,
    Scott
     
  16. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Here are some good examples

    City of Enock was translated (caught up into heaven)

    This is surely well known LDS doctrine..

    Moses 7:27 And Enoch beheld angels descending out of heaven, bearing testimony of the Father and Son; and the Holy Ghost fell on many, and they were caught up by the powers of heaven into Zion.

    Adam was literally baptised by his body being "caught away by the Spirit of the Lord" and layed "down into the water".

    Many or most LDS members do not even know this scripture exists.

    Moses 6:64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.

    Many also do not realise that Moses was literally caught up onto the tops of Mt Sinai, when he received the ten commandments. He didn't hike to the top, his body was literally carried there by the Lord..

    Moses 1:1 The words of God, which he spake unto Moses at a time when Moses was caught up into an exceedingly high mountain,

    Jesus was also caught up onto "a pinnacle of the temple," when Satan tempted him to throw himself down to see if the angels would catch him. Jesus replied, "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God".

    Matthew 4: 5
    Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

    Luke 4: 9
    And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
     
  17. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Well Jesus also said he would "spew" "lukewarm" Christians out of his mouth, many of these being part of the last days church of Christ spoken of in Revelation 3.

    Revelation 3: 16
    So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    I know my scriptures..
     
  18. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    Joseph was "translating" from the King James Version and making "inspired" corrections.
     
  19. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Okay, whatever you want to believe..

    No loss here...
     
  20. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    Once again you fail to recognize the potential symbolism.
     
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