The rape of Dinah?

[Rakhel]

Can an observant Jewish woman be a feminist?

Sorry came late to the game
There are ways to be observant and be feminist.
My mother(an atheist/agnostic) saw Judaism as a totally submissive religion. Submissive meaning the woman submits to her husband and does anything and everything he tells her to do. Most Jewish women will tell you that that is not the case.

 

[Levite]

That was precisely what you did.

I will not extend this further into you-said-I-said: I'm stepping away. But it really saddens and disappoints me to see that kind of unwarranted judgement and inflexible thinking from you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I will not extend this further into you-said-I-said: I'm stepping away.

L'shalom.

 

[CMike]

Sorry came late to the game
There are ways to be observant and be feminist.
My mother(an atheist/agnostic) saw Judaism as a totally submissive religion. Submissive meaning the woman submits to her husband and does anything and everything he tells her to do. Most Jewish women will tell you that that is not the case.

LOL It's been my experience that jewish women have no problem telling their husband's what to do.

 

[Levite]

LOL It's been my experience that jewish women have no problem telling their husband's what to do.

OMG

 

[CMike]

This is all rather silly.

The only thing it says about Dinah is that she was raped.

The bigger questions in the story are:

Why did the brothers kill everyone in the town?

Did the people in the town deserve it?

Was the rebuke by their father too strong or too weak?

That is what is supposed to be explored.

 

[CMike]

Sorry came late to the game
There are ways to be observant and be feminist.
My mother(an atheist/agnostic) saw Judaism as a totally submissive religion. Submissive meaning the woman submits to her husband and does anything and everything he tells her to do. Most Jewish women will tell you that that is not the case.

A woman doesn't have to be submissive in order observe the Torah the way it's supposed to be observed and not alter the Torah for a political agenda.

In fact, women are supposed to be in charge of what goes on in the home.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The only thing it says about Dinah is that she was raped.

Unless, of course, it doesn't.

 

[Rakhel]

In fact, women are supposed to be in charge of what goes on in the home.

Either you don't get it or don't want to get it. However, that is not something to be discussed in this thread.

 

[Zardoz]

The account was written by a man about a woman. Do you not suppose Dinah's perspective may have gone unknown for all these years?

This is the Jewish DIR. Only Jews post things other than questions here, please. Review rule 10.

 

[Zardoz]

Unless, of course, it doesn't.

I remember this as 'seduce'. Not quite the same thing as rape, but not far off.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So, motivated in great part by this thread, I ordered the book

The Harlot By The Side Of The Road by Jonathan Kirsch​

an author that I need to more vigorously pursue.

It arrived yesterday and I immediately jumped to Chapter 5: "See What a Scourge Is Laid upon Your Hate": The Strange Affair of Dinah and Shechem.

It is, in my opinion, well worth reading, and I venture to suggest that Levite will concur. It's that kind of book. Just a suggestion ...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The bigger questions in the story are:
Why did the brothers kill everyone in the town?
Did the people in the town deserve it?
Was the rebuke by their father too strong or too weak?

They are, indeed, important questions concerning which we are likely to disagree. Let me just offer two observations made by Kirsch, the first a judgment and the second an irony:

• Gen. 49:5-7
• Num. 25:7-14

That is what is supposed to be explored.

Permit me to suggest that there is a real problem when someone implicitly suggests what is not suppose to be explored.

 

[CMike]

The only thing the text says about Dinah is that she was raped, therefore, any other stuff about her feelings is pure conjecture.

However, the text does mention a bit about the topics I mentioned.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The only thing the text says about Dinah is that she was raped, ...

Are you aware that there are people far more learned than you who suggest that the text does not say that she was raped? You have every right to disagree, but your certainty is as arrogant as it is baseless.

 

[CMike]

Are you aware that there are people far more learned than you who suggest that the text does not say that she was raped? You have every right to disagree, but your certainty is as arrogant as it is baseless.

Not that has been presented.

 

[CMike]

They are, indeed, important questions concerning which we are likely to disagree. Let me just offer two observations made by Kirsch, the first a judgment and the second an irony:

• Gen. 49:5-7
• Num. 25:7-14

Permit me to suggest that there is a real problem when someone implicitly suggests what is not suppose to be explored.

Is there a point you are trying to make by posting the link to those passages? What is it?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is there a point you are trying to make by posting the link to those passages? What is it?

Come back with a different attitude and we'll talk.