The Qur'an: Intentions vs. Effects

[LuisDantas]

I have listened to him. He doesn't know a thing about Islam.

Feel free to present some example of how he is mistaken, then.

 

[dybmh]

Actually, he sources his claims rather excellently and makes some fine points that are nearly impossible to rebuff.

I am intrigued, my friend. And thank you.

 

[sooda]

Feel free to present some example of how he is mistaken, then.

Nope. You, however, are lying about him right now, consciously or otherwise.

I trust that you do not mean to, and for that reason I tell you that directly so that you may learn better.

[PDF]
Bill Warner falsifies the history of Islam to serve ...
www.mohsenelguindy.com/pdf/articles/29_bill_warner.pdf
Bill Warner falsifies the history of Islam to serve agendas By Dr. Mohsen El-Guindy Bill Warner is an Islamophobe hate monger spreading bigotry, and hatred against Islam in the American society. He is among America's leading Islamophobes. Bill Warner and others like him were hired by

 

[sooda]

I am intrigued, my friend. And thank you.

How accurate is Bill Warner in describing political Islam ...
https://www.quora.com/How-accurate-is-Bill-Warner-in-describing...
How accurate is Bill Warner in describing political Islam, its conquest of the middle east and present day Spain? Update Cancel. ... however, and I can say with confidence that Bill Warner’s main historical argument is absolute garbage. In his “How Islam destroyed the Classical World” series, Bill Warner argues that it was Islam, in a ...

 

[sooda]

The Anti-Muslim Inner Circle | Southern Poverty Law Center
https://www.splcenter.org/.../2011/anti-muslim-inner-circle
The Anti-Muslim Inner Circle. 2011. Summer Issue. June 17, 2011. ... all but Bill French, Terry Jones and Debbie Schlussel regularly interact with others on the list. ... (2010; under the pen name Bill Warner). SUMMARY French has no formal training or background in law, Islam or Shariah law — which in any case is not an established legal code ...

 

[LuisDantas]

Accusations of islamophobia are a dime a dozen, and nearly consistently worth as much.

The truth of the matter is that Islaam and Muslims only very rarely acknowledge criticism - any criticism at all - as a valid endeavour.

It is no coincidence that the Shias and Sunni are only rarely on even diplomatic terms towards each other.

 

[icehorse]

Your reading of the Qur'an was parsimonious? You skimmed through it?

Please be fair.

It sounds like you had a negative view of Islam before you read the Qur'an. Then you skimmed through it. This "parsimonious" reading confirmed your preconceived notions. And then you accepted the 500+ document even though it is based on inaccurate information ( The Skeptic's Annotated Qur'an ). And whether or not the document is accurate or not, you do not question its conclusion.

It was these comments that I took as slurs. Without knowing the effort or care I put into my studies, you assumed I only skimmed the material, and was not aware of my own biases. A big part of my profession is to read books and assess - from a cognitive science perspective - what ideas reader's brains will learn from the book. I make an important distinction here between a "mind", which does indeed have biases, and a "brain", which is far less susceptible to bias.

Zooming out, I notice this pattern quite a bit. When people criticize religions, one of the apologist's first responses is to try to discredit the critic. This is clearly a fallacious approach. Ideas should stand or fall on their own merit, correct?

 

[dybmh]

It was these comments that I took as slurs. Without knowing the effort or care I put into my studies, you assumed I only skimmed the material, and was not aware of my own biases. A big part of my profession is to read books and assess - from a cognitive science perspective - what ideas reader's brains will learn from the book. I make an important distinction here between a "mind", which does indeed have biases, and a "brain", which is far less susceptible to bias.

Zooming out, I notice this pattern quite a bit. When people criticize religions, one of the apologist's first responses is to try to discredit the critic. This is clearly a fallacious approach. Ideas should stand or fall on their own merit, correct?

I agree. I will certainly try not to make this mistake again. If in doubt, may i send you a PM to check in with you first?

 

[icehorse]

I agree. I will certainly try not to make this mistake again. If in doubt, may i send you a PM to check in with you first?

thanks. and feel free to ask questions in public.

 

[ManSinha]

[PDF]
Bill Warner falsifies the history of Islam to serve ...
www.mohsenelguindy.com/pdf/articles/29_bill_warner.pdf
Bill Warner falsifies the history of Islam to serve agendas By Dr. Mohsen El-Guindy Bill Warner is an Islamophobe hate monger spreading bigotry, and hatred against Islam in the American society. He is among America's leading Islamophobes. Bill Warner and others like him were hired by

That article does little to justify your cause @sooda - it is just full of assertions and hate mongering (like for like) cherry picking verses from the Qu'ran to prove a point - I would not trust the author of that article at all

 

[sooda]

Accusations of islamophobia are a dime a dozen, and nearly consistently worth as much.

The truth of the matter is that Islaam and Muslims only very rarely acknowledge criticism - any criticism at all - as a valid endeavour.

It is no coincidence that the Shias and Sunni are only rarely on even diplomatic terms towards each other.

Really? Where did you live in the Arab world?

 

[LuisDantas]

Really? Where did you live in the Arab world?

Tell me why that is a requirement again, and while you are at it, what are your credentials for making such demands.

 

[sooda]

Tell me why that is a requirement again, and while you are at it, what are your credentials for making such demands.

I have no credentials to make any demands.. I was thinking you probably learned about Islam on the Internet.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have no credentials to make any demands.. I was thinking you probably learned about Islam on the Internet.

Mostly, but not entirely. Nor was it always quite so impersonal as you may be assuming even when it was in the Internet.

It is remarkably difficult to actually learn about Islaam from Muslims, but I made a sincere effort and learned a lot about the main pitfalls.

I put a lot of effort into it, too. I needed to.

 

[sooda]

Mostly, but not entirely.

I put a lot of effort into it, too. I needed to.

Do you read Jihad Watch, Bridgette Gabriel, Robert Spencer et al?

Do you ever read Muslim sources?

 

[icehorse]

Do you read Jihad Watch, Bridgette Gabriel, Robert Spencer et al?

Do you ever read Muslim sources?

Are YOU reading other poster's responses?

 

[sooda]

Are YOU reading other poster's responses?

I have been interested in Islam since the mid 1950s when I read a transcript of a radio broadcast by King Ibn Saud from the 1940s. He was promoting the acceptance of the radio and he read from the Koran.. He also said, "Man does not live by bread alone"... quoting Jesus and Matthew 4:4 .

Why would a Muslim King quote Jesus?

So I lived in the ME for 2 decades and studied Islam and talked to Muslim men and women.

I know ignorance and BS about Islam when I see it.

 

[icehorse]

I have been interested in Islam since the mid 1950s when I read a transcript of a radio broadcast by King Ibn Saud from the 1940s. He was promoting the acceptance of the radio and he read from the Koran.. He also said, "Man does not live by bread alone"... quoting Jesus and Matthew 4:4 .

Why would a Muslim King quote Jesus?

So I lived in the ME for 2 decades and studied Islam and talked to Muslim men and women.

I know ignorance and BS about Islam when I see it.

Sincerely, I can appreciate your personal experiences. That said, you've known only a handful of Muslims when compared to the world's 1.8 billion. We're talking about worldwide trends, we have to rely on large polls and statistical findings to make any sense of Islam in the whole.

 

[paarsurrey]

Mostly, but not entirely. Nor was it always quite so impersonal as you may be assuming even when it was in the Internet.

It is remarkably difficult to actually learn about Islaam from Muslims, but I made a sincere effort and learned a lot about the main pitfalls.

I put a lot of effort into it, too. I needed to.

I suggest to learn about Islam from Quran, not from Muslims, please.
It is just a suggestion.
Regards

 

[sooda]

Sincerely, I can appreciate your personal experiences. That said, you've known only a handful of Muslims when compared to the world's 1.8 billion. We're talking about worldwide trends, we have to rely on large polls and statistical findings to make any sense of Islam in the whole.

And how many Muslims have you known over the past 70 years?

Look at the DETAILS of your poll.