• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Quran confirms parts of the Bible.

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The Quran teaches with every generic founder it's always twelve representatives. And it talks about twelve not randomly but calculatively.

Isa Ibn Maryam chose 12 apostles, yet he calls Peter "Satan" (Matthew 16:19), and he fed "Satan" to Judah at the last supper, who subsequently hung himself. That leaves 10. Jacob had 12 sons, but 1 was quickly sold to the Ishmaelites, and subsequently to the Egyptians, and subsequently divided into two tribes, Ephraim and Manassas, which would add up to 13 tribes. And who were these mythical twelve representatives/leaders of Islam? And who was the last? It seems most Muslims think there were 4 original leaders, which is historically, and archeologically suspect. Your metaphoric equivalence parallels the "Christian" viewpoint. That viewpoint only works in a metaphoric world, and since we do not yet have a working dimensional portal, it would be simply a point of view, and not a fact. In truth, the "Christians" are not "saved", and the Muslims are not going to get a paradise with 72 virgins/raisons.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Isa Ibn Maryam chose 12 apostles, yet he calls Peter "Satan" (Matthew 16:19), and he fed "Satan" to Judah at the last supper, who subsequently hung himself. That leaves 10. Jacob had 12 sons, but 1 was quickly sold to the Ishmaelites, and subsequently to the Egyptians, and subsequently divided into two tribes, Ephraim and Manassas, which would add up to 13 tribes. And who were these mythical twelve representatives/leaders of Islam? And who was the last? It seems most Muslims think there were 4 original leaders, which is historically, and archeologically suspect. Your metaphoric equivalence parallels the "Christian" viewpoint. That viewpoint only works in a metaphoric world, and since we do not yet have a working dimensional portal, it would be simply a point of view, and not a fact. In truth, the "Christians" are not "saved", and the Muslims are not going to get a paradise with 72 virgins/raisons.

The 12 Successors of Mohammad (s) start with Ali (a) then his sons Hassan (a) and Hussain (a), and then 9 descendants of Hussain, one son after another.

The truth is chosen leaders from God are emphasized and deemphasized in the Bible. They are made holy and made unholy, both. The Quran takes the standpoint that for example, Saul/Talut (a) was chosen and was holy, and the story of him deviating is not confirmed, that he became jealous over David (a) is not confirmed.

It takes the stance that Aaron (a) and his family (a) are chosen but that things pertaining to him, his family, and the twelve branches of Moses (a) were changed.

The Twelve Lion King statues represented Solomon's (a) predecessors including Musa (a) and successors including Isa (a) together (both added up to) as twelve.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Your problem is that the Koran says the book of the Jews, and the gospel of Isa Ibn Maryam are from Allah, whereas the message of Isa Ibn Maryam, is that false prophets would follow him (Matthew 7:15). You are in a very poor position with regard to the contradictions you point out.

Prophets (a) themselves deviate and are that not holy per Bible, yet very holy and important. It can't decide. It's central themes contradict, it emphasizes on their holy position yet attributes some of them deviations.
 

muhammad_isa

Well-Known Member
The 12 Successors of Mohammad (s) start with Ali (a) then his sons Hassan (a) and Hussain (a), and then 9 descendants of Hussain, one son after another.
Why?

One of Noah's [ AS ] sons, for example, was a disbeliever.
It is not about family lineage. It is about piety.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why?

One of Noah's [ AS ] sons, for example, was a disbeliever.
It is not about family lineage. It is about piety.

It's true it's about piety, but God shows his way is to choose from blood relationship. That is he puts his chosen ones to be related by blood and mostly "offspring some of it from some" (3:33). The reason it stops too many claimants of false leadership. The fact it has to be from offspring of Fatima (a), then Hussain (a), it makes it harder for fake Imams to claim leadership from God.

Yet even with this limit, some leaders from offspring of Fatima (a) claimed leadership without proof from God.

God emphasized in Quran about family lineage in many verses.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The 12 Successors of Mohammad (s) start with Ali (a) then his sons Hassan (a) and Hussain (a), and then 9 descendants of Hussain, one son after another.

The truth is chosen leaders from God are emphasized and deemphasized in the Bible. They are made holy and made unholy, both. The Quran takes the standpoint that for example, Saul/Talut (a) was chosen and was holy, and the story of him deviating is not confirmed, that he became jealous over David (a) is not confirmed.

It takes the stance that Aaron (a) and his family (a) are chosen but that things pertaining to him, his family, and the twelve branches of Moses (a) were changed.

The Twelve Lion King statues represented Solomon's (a) predecessors including Musa (a) and successors including Isa (a) together (both added up to) as twelve.

So, the kings of Islam are all dead? Where is the Mahdi of the hadiths? Is he the 13th leader to come? I thought "Ali" was supposed to be the 4th caliph, and ruled during the period of the Muslim civil war, and was a Shia, and therefore 84% of Muslims, the Sunni, probably don't agree with you. Not that the majority rules, but the minority better have a nuclear weapon to come out on top. According to the Torah, the lions along the throne steps, represent the tribes of Israel, and will drink the blood of the slain. According to Islam, the Koran was given to Mhmd by the angel of light Gabriel. According to historical records, Gabrial was a monk from the monastery of Saint Katherine, who supposedly met with Mhmd. According to the false prophet Saul (Paul), the angel of light is Satan. According to the Koran, the Torah is from God. Maybe you should check your sources.

Genesis 49:9
Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

Numbers 23:24
Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain.

Numbers 24:9
He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up? Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Prophets (a) themselves deviate and are that not holy per Bible, yet very holy and important. It can't decide. It's central themes contradict, it emphasizes on their holy position yet attributes some of them deviations.

Per the message of Isa Ibn Maryam, the bible/field (NT) contains the message of the devil mixed among the message of the son of man (Matthew 13). As regard to "Scripture", the Law and the prophets, according to Isa Ibn Maryam, the "scripture" "cannot be broke". (John 10:35). As for "understanding", well, according to Isa Ibn Maryam, he quotes from Isaiah, and said that he taught in parables so that "you will keep on seeing and not perceive" (Matthew 13:13-15) & (Isaiah 6:9-10). The real prophets do not deviate. Deviation is a sign of false prophets. God does not change: Malachi 3:6 “For I am Yehovah, I do not change;
 
Top