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Featured The Quran as a miracle - is it a legitimate challenge?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Link, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Education produces eloquence. By your criteria, an educated person could do no wrong (because they speak eloquently). Therefore, they could murder their wife (while composing eloquent poetry, of course).

    Not all educated people are saints. Many Nazis were said to have very high IQs....and saints they aint.
     
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  2. Jeremiah Ames

    Jeremiah Ames Well-Known Member

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    quite true, I agree completely

    and insights are extremely helpful to other people
     
  3. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    You have claimed that Quran is godly inspired

    A Christian will say the bible is godly inspired

    How do I tell which is right and which is wrong?
     
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  4. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    I believe the subconscious can come up with spectacular things instantly. I used to think when it happened it was Aliens. Now I just think for the most part it was schizophrenia. I do not rule out a higher being.
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    So what you are saying is, you are dismissing anything said in the OP by default without exploring it right?
     
  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    You have to understand both first.
     
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Why assume otherwise in the first place?
     
  8. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because it is nonsensical. To tacitly make the claim that no human could have possibly written the Quran without God's explicit inspiration or direction flies in the face of all evidence we actually have - which is that humans did write the Quran - and no one can detect or evidence God in the details. Just because no one else has produced the Quran makes absolutely no difference. It would be like saying that God had to have had a hand in the writing of Harry Potter because no one but J.K. Rowling has ever produced the work. Asinine. An idea completely and utterly devoid of sense or intellectual value.
     
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  9. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Umm... a complete lack of compelling evidence comes to mind. Besides that, thousands upon thousands of items observable in the universe that require quite a bit more (outlandish) explanation when you assume "God exists" as opposed to the case where you assume such a thing does not exist.
     
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  10. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    So again, you are just dismissing it without understanding it. Thats a logical fallacy called genetic fallacy. It stems because of bias.

    So super going. :)
     
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Lets together hijack this thread and turn this also into a "Does God exist thread" as any other thread one or two atheists are involved. What do you say. Anyway it is inevitable.

    So tell me. Why assume God doesnt exist? Provide logical reasoning. Not just "no proof", because I can say "no proof" to you. Go ahead. Its alright. Anyway the need to say no God is greater than relevance to the topic. So please explain your logical explanation of why you should assume.
     
  12. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    You assume it is logical and appropriate because of your own biases.

    Why do you assume that I do not understand it? Because I don't agree with you? It had better be more than that. Please explain what part I am missing out on. As it stands, all you have done is say "So super going." and follow it up with a stupid smiley face emoji.
     
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  13. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Thats not evidence to the non-existence of God.
     
  14. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Without first proving that God exists, NONE OF THIS CRAP MEANS ANYTHING. Do you understand that? All conversations of this ilk (unless it is you and your Islamic buddies giving high fives in a circle and patting one another on the back for it) needs to start at that exact SQUARE ONE. Prove God exists... then we can actually address any of this other stuff in a manner than makes any sense whatsoever.

    Why assume unicorns don't exist? Why assume leprechauns don't exist? Why assume the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist? Provide logical reasoning. Not just "no proof", because I can say "no proof" to you.

    You should know how this works by now, and if you don't, then shame on you. Seriously... shame. I am not the one making outlandish claims without evidence. Not me sir. YOU. You and your pals. YOU do it. So it's definitely your job to do the convincing. Just as it would be my job to produce the deed to a bridge if I were trying to sell you one. My job then. But this is (supposedly) your bridge you're trying to sell. Therefore it is YOUR job to produce the deed. Not mine. I am the prospective buyer... and right now, it looks like you're trying to scam me... because YOU DON'T HAVE THE DEED.
     
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  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I didnt make any statement about it whether I assume or not. Its just a tu quoque. It is you who made the statement of dismissal without any knowledge of what the author of this OP is saying.
     
  16. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing to discuss with you then. I don't care about your ridiculous requirements from me before I dismiss the OP outright. Some daffy claim is made in the OP, and there is ZERO evidence provided for it except that the Quran exists. Well Whoop-De-Doo! We already knew as much. Now where is the direct correlation to God? Why couldn't fairies have directed the writing of or inspired the Quran? How about Djinn? Why couldn't it have been Bigfoot? Or why not Jerushiskarit? Or Macklefum? Why not Bilskidaroosimasker? Please prove to me that it wasn't any of those things first, and then we'll talk about the OP.
     
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  17. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Not at all. As a topic it is very much a subject to discuss. It is just that maybe you have a need to turn everything into a discussion about the existence of God. So now you have to retort angrily with some insults and attempts at some profanity.

    This kind of act is religious fanaticism.

    I dont know. Who assumed? Are you claiming unicorns exist? Okay. So start a new thread to discuss the existence of unicorns. Interesting.

    You are claiming no God exists without evidence. The typical ad hominem will not avoid that emptiness.
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    of course you dont care to discuss. But you care to make logical fallacies.

    I am trying to understand this necessity some people have.
     
  19. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    We can also discuss why fairies might like to fornicate under mushroom tops without first having any idea that fairies exist at all. Wouldn't that be productive?

    Yes, because as I have stated, this is square one. You want to talk about the attributes or activities of God? First you must prove His existence - without it you may as well be throwing around conjectures on fantasy.

    Of course you would focus on "anger" or "profanity." As if those made any difference to the points being made. You'd like to think they do, because then it makes your impossible job possibly a little easier. If you can just discredit the nonbeliever, or bring into question their character... then you might have a chance. Hahaha... no. No... you have no chance with the evidence you have in your corner. It is currently a pipe dream.

    Says you. Like I care at all. Call it what you will. Point is - I don't believe any of the implications being made in the OP. None of them... and the evidence provided in the OP isn't going to cut it. You don't like it? Find better evidence.

    I am assuming the non-existence of unicorns until such time as there is evidence to suggest the contrary. Any talk of unicorns is entirely rhetorical. It is specifically to point out that the default position is to not consider something as evident until it is evidenced.

    Where did I claim that no gods exist? Where did I do that? Please point me in the direction. All I said is that I don't believe anyone who says it does exist, and that I need better evidence in order to believe. Why would I tell you to go get better evidence if I truly believed that God didn't exist? Get better evidence. Get better evidence. Get better evidence. Get better evidence.

    "The Quran exists." Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
     
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  20. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    You still haven't told me what it is about the OP I am missing or misunderstanding. You made the claim that I don't understand something. Please enlighten me. My guess is that you are purposefully dodging the point. If you truly want to discuss, then let's do it. Forget all this other noise and tell me: what is it I am missing or misunderstanding?
     
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