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The question of realness

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This is not a god (abrahamic) specific question but it can incoporate all gods under the spirit-ual sense. I dont know what a deity is, so any god deity (i.e. being) or not (i.e. panthentheism) is fine.

What makes something real?

A lot of us have spiritual and supernatural and whatever-you-want-to-call it experiences that you know for yourself and/or you know for everyone it is true whether we can explain it or not. Unfortunately, no one does, if not at least in their own words.

So, what formula do you consider your experiences real regardless if others believe you or not?

Some experiences are not specific to religion. Say mystics
Some are specific to culture. Say hindu.
Some are specific to whats written. Say jewish
Some are specfic to ones own criteria of truth. (FITB)
Some.....

Whether it all applies or you like to say "not me" just to post is besides the point.

If it is not tangible and you cannot explain it as a source of your psych nor a reflection of external sources (unexplained convincing event? Something that convinced you there is more out there. Whatever)...

It does not matter if it is real or fact to us.

How is it real to you?

Not just testimony. Explain your logic. If you dont like talking about it, make up one thats simular to your understanding of how you know something is real without needing it to be tangible or explained by universal criteria of whats fact)
 

Ostronomos

Well-Known Member
This is not a god (abrahamic) specific question but it can incoporate all gods under the spirit-ual sense. I dont know what a deity is, so any god deity (i.e. being) or not (i.e. panthentheism) is fine.

What makes something real?

A lot of us have spiritual and supernatural and whatever-you-want-to-call it experiences that you know for yourself and/or you know for everyone it is true whether we can explain it or not. Unfortunately, no one does, if not at least in their own words.

So, what formula do you consider your experiences real regardless if others believe you or not?

Some experiences are not specific to religion. Say mystics
Some are specific to culture. Say hindu.
Some are specific to whats written. Say jewish
Some are specfic to ones own criteria of truth. (FITB)
Some.....

Whether it all applies or you like to say "not me" just to post is besides the point.

If it is not tangible and you cannot explain it as a source of your psych nor a reflection of external sources (unexplained convincing event? Something that convinced you there is more out there. Whatever)...

It does not matter if it is real or fact to us.

How is it real to you?

Not just testimony. Explain your logic. If you dont like talking about it, make up one thats simular to your understanding of how you know something is real without needing it to be tangible or explained by universal criteria of whats fact)

Coherence, consistency and content make something real. You can judge your experience based on these three properties. Coherence is the interrelationship between identities for example. Meaning is the personal value and implications we derive from them. An understanding of God can be derived from experience of these properties. That is where higher dimensions come in.
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
There is only one reality. However, in a subjective universe, apparent reality depends on the level of faith. Currently, that seems to be how well structured the faith is.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
As an agnostic, I don’t have any experiences that I claim are real beyond that which can be demonstrated and/or reproduced.

That said, some things cannot (yet) be demonstrated and measured by our limited scientific instruments. For example: I love my children with all my heart, as well as my wife; and my family loves me (unless I’m living as the protagonist in some sci-fi thriller).
I have memories, which I could tell you about; although the events in those memories were never recorded on film or DVD.
I remember some dreams, but I know that the events in those dreams are not memories (I never flew above the trees or into space without a spacesuit like superman, or fell to my death from a cliff, etc...).

Nothing so far has convinced me that “there is more out there” as you say. Although I believe there is a very high likelihood of extra-terrestrial life, I don’t think that they have flown here in spaceships yet. :shrug:
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
What makes something real?

Verification.
If I assert something and show it to you, explain how it works. Then you try every possible way you can think of to disprove, of course disproof has to be possible in the first place, and can't it's probably real. Certainly real enough.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
A lot of my feelings line up with my experiences. Music does it to me as well. The sense of peace is a very tangible feeling. The sense of wonder, or joy comes up, and i feel it. From head to feet i get overwhelming good feelins and i try to locate my very being with the feelings im having. My sense of being is everywhere throughout my body when i have these feelings.

They say armless people can still feel their arm.

It is very real that some sort of chi energy , or life force exists within me. The feelings are not arbitrary, i feel a language to them that lines up with my experiences.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Verification.
If I assert something and show it to you, explain how it works. Then you try every possible way you can think of to disprove, of course disproof has to be possible in the first place, and can't it's probably real. Certainly real enough.

Have you had an unexplained experience that was real to you despite any verifican commonly used for universal and tangible facts?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
There is only one reality. However, in a subjective universe, apparent reality depends on the level of faith. Currently, that seems to be how well structured the faith is.

Have you had experiences to where these criteria applied to it even though it may not be fact for others?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
As an agnostic, I don’t have any experiences that I claim are real beyond that which can be demonstrated and/or reproduced.

That said, some things cannot (yet) be demonstrated and measured by our limited scientific instruments. For example: I love my children with all my heart, as well as my wife; and my family loves me (unless I’m living as the protagonist in some sci-fi thriller).
I have memories, which I could tell you about; although the events in those memories were never recorded on film or DVD.
I remember some dreams, but I know that the events in those dreams are not memories (I never flew above the trees or into space without a spacesuit like superman, or fell to my death from a cliff, etc...).

Nothing so far has convinced me that “there is more out there” as you say. Although I believe there is a very high likelihood of extra-terrestrial life, I don’t think that they have flown here in spaceships yet. :shrug:

Nothing specific to beings and aliens. Some people dont have experiences they would call spiritual, yet they have them and coinsidences or say something about "seeing the birth of a baby"or so have you. Means we have experiences not all can be (yet?) Explained.

I was thinking many people do regardlesd what they believe.
 
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WalterTrull

Godfella
Have you had experiences to where these criteria applied to it even though it may not be fact for others?
Sure. We structure faith all the time. We've gotten much better at it over time. Modern medicine is so more well structured a faith than amulets and even chanted mantra.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
This is not a god (abrahamic) specific question but it can incoporate all gods under the spirit-ual sense. I dont know what a deity is, so any god deity (i.e. being) or not (i.e. panthentheism) is fine.

What makes something real?

A lot of us have spiritual and supernatural and whatever-you-want-to-call it experiences that you know for yourself and/or you know for everyone it is true whether we can explain it or not. Unfortunately, no one does, if not at least in their own words.

So, what formula do you consider your experiences real regardless if others believe you or not?

Some experiences are not specific to religion. Say mystics
Some are specific to culture. Say hindu.
Some are specific to whats written. Say jewish
Some are specfic to ones own criteria of truth. (FITB)
Some.....

Whether it all applies or you like to say "not me" just to post is besides the point.

If it is not tangible and you cannot explain it as a source of your psych nor a reflection of external sources (unexplained convincing event? Something that convinced you there is more out there. Whatever)...

It does not matter if it is real or fact to us.

How is it real to you?

Not just testimony. Explain your logic. If you dont like talking about it, make up one thats simular to your understanding of how you know something is real without needing it to be tangible or explained by universal criteria of whats fact)

All experiences are "real" to the person that had them. The question is the extremely subjective interpretation by that individual......how accurate is that interpretation of the cause of the experience?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Sure. We structure faith all the time. We've gotten much better at it over time. Modern medicine is so more well structured a faith than amulets and even chanted mantra.


Does it have to be faith?

Not all "ephenied" (or epiphany) experiences need not be based on faith. Surely Pagans dont see it that way nor do an atheist mother who marvels over her first child.
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
All experiences are "real" to the person that had them. The question is the extremely subjective interpretation by that individual......how accurate is that interpretation of the cause of the experience?

I wonder if that person's real experience can be expressed through their criteria of knowledge that we may know the logistics of their experiences without imposing our own definition of realness on them.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I wonder if that person's real experience can be expressed through their criteria of knowledge that we may know the logistics of their experiences without imposing our own definition of realness on them.

That's a helluva sentence there.......are you asking how one should go about determining the actual cause of a particular experience?
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Nothing specific to beings and aliens. Some people dont have experiences they would call spiritual, yet they have them ad coinsidences or say something about "seeing the birth of a baby"or so have you. Means we have experiences not all can be (yet?) Explained.

I was thinking many people do regardlesd what they believe.
Hmm...Well I’ve had many experiences that have ranged from staggeringly beautiful and joyful; or moments of epiphany with insights into the functioning of a cell or a galaxy or someone’s mind. But none would I consider to be divinely inspired.

Although there have been a series of wonderful coincidences along the course of my life, many of which I have worked toward, yet many others that just fell into my lap. These I suppose are the main reason that I remain Agnostic, rather than fully Atheistic. :shrug:
Well....that along with how finite our knowledge of the universe is, and how unimaginably arrogant one must be in this context, to even momentarily consider that you either “truly know” that God exists or doesn’t exist.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That's a helluva sentence there.......are you asking how one should go about determining the actual cause of a particular experience?

Ha. That was a runon, wasnt it. Rephrase it.

I wonder if that person's real experience can be expressed through their criteria of knowledge.

We may know the logistics of their experiences without imposing our own definition of realness on them.
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
Does it have to be faith?

Not all "ephenied" (or epiphany) experiences need not be based on faith. Surely Pagans dont see it that way nor do an atheist mother who marvels over her first child.
Not talking about beliefs or religions. Faith is how we move and create images in a subjective universe. While not the actual force, it is the directive.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Ha. That was a runon, wasnt it. Rephrase it.

I wonder if that person's real experience can be expressed through their criteria of knowledge.

We may know the logistics of their experiences without imposing our own definition of realness on them.

Well, yes and no. We can hear their subjective interpretation of the event, which is based upon their own knowledge, rational thinking (or lack thereof) and biases. But without any way to verify what they are saying as truthful, we are no closer to understanding what actually is the cause of the experience.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Not talking about beliefs or religions. Faith is how we move and create images in a subjective universe. While not the actual force, it is the directive.

How does that relate to your example of amulets and chanting manta?

Do you have (or do you think people have) unexplained experiences only (my words) based on faith or can their justifications be real even if we disagree with them?

For example, if someone had X experience they know is real and can justify it, do you think their justifications are logical when they see it as objective not subjective? (Going off their view not our own)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hmm...Well I’ve had many experiences that have ranged from staggeringly beautiful and joyful; or moments of epiphany with insights into the functioning of a cell or a galaxy or someone’s mind. But none would I consider to be divinely inspired.

Although there have been a series of wonderful coincidences along the course of my life, many of which I have worked toward, yet many others that just fell into my lap. These I suppose are the main reason that I remain Agnostic, rather than fully Atheistic. :shrug:
Well....that along with how finite our knowledge of the universe is, and how unimaginably arrogant one must be in this context, to even momentarily consider that you either “truly know” that God exists or doesn’t exist.

Outside of god(s), would you be able to explain the logic behind the coinsedences that they are real to you (right?)? What makes them real if the rest of us see it false? Your criteria of realness.
 
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