The Quandary

[TransmutingSoul]

Continuing with the quandary given by Baha'u'llah, this is the opening of the Tablet to ‘Álí Páshá, the Ottoman Prime Minister;

IN HIS NAME, THE ALL-GLORIOUS!

Hearken, O Chief, to the voice of God, the Sovereign, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. He, verily, calleth aloud between heaven and earth, summoning all mankind unto the scene of transcendent glory. Neither thy grunting, nor the barking of those around thee, nor the opposition of the hosts of the world can withhold the Almighty from achieving His purpose. The whole world hath been set ablaze by the Word of thy Lord, the All-Glorious, a Word softer than the morning breeze. It hath been manifested in the form of the human temple, and through it God hath quickened the souls of the sincere among His servants. In its inner essence, this Word is the living water by which God hath purified the hearts of such as have turned unto Him and forgotten every other mention, and through which He draweth them nigh unto the seat of His mighty Name. We have sprinkled it upon the people of the graves, and lo, they have risen up, with their gaze fixed upon the shining and resplendent Beauty of their Lord.... "

(The Summons of the Lord of Hosts)
www.bahai.org/r/670668794

Regards Tony

The quandary continued for Álí Páshá, the Ottoman Prime Minister, as Baha'u'llah adressed Him another Tablet to which was very firm;

He is in His own Right the Supreme Ruler!

The Pen of the Most High proclaimeth: O thou who hast imagined thyself to be the most exalted of men and who hast regarded as the lowliest of all creatures this divine Youth, through Whom the eyes of the Concourse on high have been illumined and made radiant! This Youth hath sought nothing from thee or from such as are like unto thee, inasmuch as from time immemorial, whenever the Manifestations of the All-Merciful and the Exponents of His unfading glory have stepped out of the Realm of eternity into this mortal world and revealed themselves to revive the dead, men such as thee have considered these sanctified Souls and Temples of Divine Oneness, upon Whom must needs depend the rehabilitation of the peoples of the earth, to be stirrers of mischief and worthy of blame. These men, verily, have all returned unto dust. Thou, too, shalt erelong take abode therein and find thyself in grievous loss. and who hast regarded as the lowliest of all creatures this divine Youth, through Whom the eyes of the Concourse on high have been illumined and made radiant! This Youth hath sought nothing from thee or from such as are like unto thee, inasmuch as from time immemorial, whenever the Manifestations of the All-Merciful and the Exponents of His unfading glory have stepped out of the Realm of eternity into this mortal world and revealed themselves to revive the dead, men such as thee have considered these sanctified Souls and Temples of Divine Oneness, upon Whom must needs depend the rehabilitation of the peoples of the earth, to be stirrers of mischief and worthy of blame. These men, verily, have all returned unto dust. Thou, too, shalt erelong take abode therein and find thyself in grievous loss....."

In this Tablet, Baha'u'llah also teel him how God had been showing Hid neglect;

"...Several times calamities have overtaken you, and yet ye failed utterly to take heed. One of them was the conflagration which devoured most of the City with the flames of justice, and concerning which many poems were written, stating that no such fire had ever been witnessed. And yet, ye waxed more heedless. Plague, likewise, broke out, and ye still failed to give heed! Be expectant, however, for the wrath of God is ready to overtake you. Erelong will ye behold that which hath been sent down from the Pen of My command...."

Such is the quandary offered to this world, the power of sovereignty in these Tablets, are they from God?

My opinion is yes, as what was written, is indeed unfolding, little by little day by day.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The quandary noted above for Álí Páshá, the Ottoman Prime Minister was that Baha'u'llah addressed this Tablet to him in 1869, in 1871 He was stricken with tuberculosis and died on 7 September 1871 after three months of illness, at the age of 56.

In a document that was written in 1871, just before his death "He also mentions some failures on his part, such as the inadequate tax system, and goes on to give the sultan advice for the future. Such advice includes maintaining religious freedom, accepting non-Muslims into the armed forces and civil service, and improving the tax system by employing controlled companies to collect taxes."

Regards Tony

 

[Ancient Soul]

The quandary continued for Álí Páshá, the Ottoman Prime Minister, as Baha'u'llah adressed Him another Tablet to which was very firm;

He is in His own Right the Supreme Ruler!

The Pen of the Most High proclaimeth: O thou who hast imagined thyself to be the most exalted of men and who hast regarded as the lowliest of all creatures this divine Youth, through Whom the eyes of the Concourse on high have been illumined and made radiant! This Youth hath sought nothing from thee or from such as are like unto thee, inasmuch as from time immemorial, whenever the Manifestations of the All-Merciful and the Exponents of His unfading glory have stepped out of the Realm of eternity into this mortal world and revealed themselves to revive the dead, men such as thee have considered these sanctified Souls and Temples of Divine Oneness, upon Whom must needs depend the rehabilitation of the peoples of the earth, to be stirrers of mischief and worthy of blame. These men, verily, have all returned unto dust. Thou, too, shalt erelong take abode therein and find thyself in grievous loss. and who hast regarded as the lowliest of all creatures this divine Youth, through Whom the eyes of the Concourse on high have been illumined and made radiant! This Youth hath sought nothing from thee or from such as are like unto thee, inasmuch as from time immemorial, whenever the Manifestations of the All-Merciful and the Exponents of His unfading glory have stepped out of the Realm of eternity into this mortal world and revealed themselves to revive the dead, men such as thee have considered these sanctified Souls and Temples of Divine Oneness, upon Whom must needs depend the rehabilitation of the peoples of the earth, to be stirrers of mischief and worthy of blame. These men, verily, have all returned unto dust. Thou, too, shalt erelong take abode therein and find thyself in grievous loss....."

In this Tablet, Baha'u'llah also teel him how God had been showing Hid neglect;

"...Several times calamities have overtaken you, and yet ye failed utterly to take heed. One of them was the conflagration which devoured most of the City with the flames of justice, and concerning which many poems were written, stating that no such fire had ever been witnessed. And yet, ye waxed more heedless. Plague, likewise, broke out, and ye still failed to give heed! Be expectant, however, for the wrath of God is ready to overtake you. Erelong will ye behold that which hath been sent down from the Pen of My command...."

Such is the quandary offered to this world, the power of sovereignty in these Tablets, are they from God?

My opinion is yes, as what was written, is indeed unfolding, little by little day by day.

Regards Tony

There is a breakdown in your logic here.

It seems that if Baha'u'llah sent this above mentioned "tablet" to Álí Páshá, the Ottoman Prime Minister, he however died on September 7, 1871. So how can this be "unfolding" little day by day?

Are you claiming that he's still alive?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My opinion is yes, as what was written, is indeed unfolding, little by little day by day.

Are you claiming that he's still alive?

No as I have no claim and the quote was misread. I only ever offer what Baha'u'llah has given as the elixir to this world. That is the quandary.

The Message of Baha'u'llah is the quandary. It is over 100 volumes of guidance. Guidance for this age and as such nothing that unfolds does not connect back to the advice given in the Message of Baha'u'llah. The Message unfolds little by little day by day, unseen by most that have not become aware of what was offered.

The responses you have offered to the quandary, are foreseen and are written into that advice.

Regards Tony

 

[dfnj]

Now that just adds to the Quandary, in a big way.

I see it is exactly the reverse of what you offered. Acceptance that all are from One God, may very well be what it is to be in the presence of the One God, without any distinctions. To not be this way, may mean we have become fragmented.

This I see is advice from that one God and as such this passage also gives more meditation;

"He Who is your Lord, the All-Merciful, cherisheth in His heart the desire of beholding the entire human race as one soul and one body"
(Bahá’u’lláh, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts)

Nobody has a Lord. We just have God. God is absolute perfection having no needs or desires. It is we who crave to have omnipotent powers because we have needs and desires. It's when we condition ourselves to limit our needs and desires is when we are the least fragmented and the closest we can be to Gods absolute perfection and wholeness. Of course, we can never achieve it because as human beings we were created by God having imperfections.

Your question about fragmentation is predicated by a desire to be whole and perfect like God.

I see this unity is universal, we all are connected;

"This limitless universe is like the human body, all the members of which are connected and linked with one another with the greatest strength. How much the organs, the members and the parts of the body of man are intermingled and connected for mutual aid and help, and how much they influence one another! In the same way, the parts of this infinite universe have their members and elements connected with one another, and influence one another spiritually and materially.' (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, pp. 245–246)

Thus it could be that the desire in my heart is not that of fragmentation, but of bonding with all that is.

Pretty good word salad here from the old Bahá. Limitless Universe, human body, organs, parts of the body, intermingled, spiritually, materially, oh my!

First, the human body is not limitless. Only our omnipotent God has no limitations. This part of the connected body of the Universe is telling you stop putting so much faith in the old Bahá. Absolute authority comes from within. The sooner you trust your own inner voice the sooner you will stop looking outside yourself for your own salvation. Salvation isn't out there in the words of someone else. Everyone has to build their own path to their own self-realization and salvation. If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him!

The only thing that connects us all is we all are suffering from our own imperfections. Our suffering is why we are all drawn to God. We all share the same vision of God's perfection and lack of suffering.

We all have to learn to accept our own suffering and make peace with its cause or source. We have to make peace with the tree of knowledge and the suffering that comes from experiencing our own imperfections. Then as I said in my first post to you, at this point, you will be opened minded enough to be able to appreciate all God is giving us. It is when we are angry at God for creating us with imperfections we miss the good stuff happening around us. Judging our imperfections in ourselves and others is a great source of unhappiness in the World. It's only when we stop judging everything around us we then exist without fragmentation and experience unity.

Don't believe me then good luck with your suffering. Hopefully someday you will find peace and happiness.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Don't believe me then good luck with your suffering. Hopefully someday you will find peace and happiness.

Peace and happiness is found in many ways.



You have not asked if I am happy and at peace, if you had, I would have said very much so.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Nobody has a Lord. We just have God. God is absolute perfection having no needs or desires. It is we who crave to have omnipotent powers because we have needs and desires. It's when we condition ourselves to limit our needs and desires is when we are the least fragmented and the closest we can be to Gods absolute perfection and wholeness. Of course, we can never achieve it because as human beings we were created by God having imperfections.

That is the quandary to be discussed in this OP.

Is there a God? Yes or No - Yes continue
Does God Influence us in any way? Yes or No - Yes continue
Is the influence via Messengers/Prophets? Yes or No - Yes continue, No How?

Thus we can keep breaking down the yes/no possibilities to determine our view of the Quandary.

I see we can achieve our potential, as we are created at the edge of darkness and the beginning of light. This world enables us to choose the light that is the potential in us all, or choose the darkness.

Regards Tony

 

[Ancient Soul]

No as I have no claim and the quote was misread. I only ever offer what Baha'u'llah has given as the elixir to this world. That is the quandary.

The Message of Baha'u'llah is the quandary. It is over 100 volumes of guidance. Guidance for this age and as such nothing that unfolds does not connect back to the advice given in the Message of Baha'u'llah. The Message unfolds little by little day by day, unseen by most that have not become aware of what was offered.

The responses you have offered to the quandary, are foreseen and are written into that advice.

Regards Tony

I see that you are well versed in spewing out the gobbledygook of the Baha'u'llah mythology. With a nice touch of Christian condescending arrogance to make yourself feel superior.

Your demon should be proud of you!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I see that you are well versed in spewing out the gobbledygook of the Baha'u'llah mythology. With a nice touch of Christian condescending arrogance to make yourself feel superior.

Your demon should be proud of you!

Whereas, I will only wish you naught but all the good and all the happiness this world and the world to come can offer, no matter which view you choose to take and no matter how you chose to share it.

Peace be with one and all, Regards Tony

 

[Ancient Soul]

Whereas, I will only wish you naught but all the good and all the happiness this world and the world to come can offer, no matter which view you choose to take and no matter how you chose to share it.

Peace be with one and all, Regards Tony

I see once again how you are well versed in spewing out the gobbledygook of the Baha'u'llah mythology. With a nice touch of Christian condescending arrogance to make yourself feel superior.

Your demon should be proud of you!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thus the Quandary continues with this thought;

"..However, every great Cause in this world of existence findeth a visible expression through three means; first, intention; second, confirmation; third, action. Today on this earth there are many souls who are the spreaders of peace and reconciliation and are longing for the realization of the oneness and unity of the world of man; but this intention needs a dynamic power, so that it may become manifest in the world of being...."

Where are we to find this power?

Regards Tony

 

[Ancient Soul]

Thus the Quandary continues with this thought;

"..However, every great Cause in this world of existence findeth a visible expression through three means; first, intention; second, confirmation; third, action. Today on this earth there are many souls who are the spreaders of peace and reconciliation and are longing for the realization of the oneness and unity of the world of man; but this intention needs a dynamic power, so that it may become manifest in the world of being...."

Where are we to find this power?

Regards Tony

Such gobbledygook is not a "thought", it's just gobbledygook.

No messenger of "god', nor any "god", would write such gobbledygook. It could ONLY have come from spiritually clueless MAN and MAN alone.

 

[dfnj]

That is the quandary to be discussed in this OP.

Is there a God? Yes or No - Yes continue
Does God Influence us in any way? Yes or No - Yes continue
Is the influence via Messengers/Prophets? Yes or No - Yes continue, No How?

Thus we can keep breaking down the yes/no possibilities to determine our view of the Quandary.

I see we can achieve our potential, as we are created at the edge of darkness and the beginning of light. This world enables us to choose the light that is the potential in us all, or choose the darkness.

Regards Tony

You pretty much ignored the main content of my post. We are the darkness. There is no choice.

Messengers and prophets are pretending to speak for God. Messengers and prophets are NOT God. Nobody needs to be told what God is thinking. Contrary to what your Bible is selling you Absolute authority comes from within. Anyone who tells you differently is either trying to sell you something or make you a member of their cult so they can accumulate power "in the name of the Lord". People need to wise up. There is no Lord. You can't have the word "lord" have any meaning without "slaves". I doubt very much our God of absolute perfection and goodness has any need or desire to be worshiped by slaves. However, people pretending to speak for God do! People pretending to speak for God want to be worshiped and be lord over the flock or subjects. People who lust for power want to have a flock of slaves above all else.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You pretty much ignored the main content of my post. We are the darkness. There is no choice.

Messengers and prophets are pretending to speak for God. Messengers and prophets are NOT God. Nobody needs to be told what God is thinking. Contrary to what your Bible is selling you Absolute authority comes from within. Anyone who tells you differently is either trying to sell you something or make you a member of their cult so they can accumulate power "in the name of the Lord". People need to wise up. There is no Lord. You can't have the word "lord" have any meaning without "slaves". I doubt very much our God of absolute perfection and goodness has any need or desire to be worshiped by slaves. However, people pretending to speak for God do! People pretending to speak for God want to be worshiped and be lord over the flock or subjects. People who lust for power want to have a flock of slaves above all else.

That just proves the Quandary is most likely a product of our own thoughts.

If you can prove any Messenger had a Lust for power, then there may be some merit to your case put forward. A just search will find that they ever lusted for power, they gave their lives so humanity would change their hearts from darkness to light, that we can find true love.

A slave/servant in spiritual terms is a person that chooses that path. A great King or Queen is also a great slave/servant unto their people. In turn, in all humility and thanks the subjects become willing slaves or servants to each other and to that greater cause offered by the King or Queen.

Regards Tony

 

[Ancient Soul]

That just proves the Quandary is most likely a product of our own thoughts.

If you can prove any Messenger had a Lust for power, then there may be some merit to your case put forward. A just search will find that they ever lusted for power, they gave their lives so humanity would change their hearts from darkness to light, that we can find true love.

A slave/servant in spiritual terms is a person that chooses that path. A great King or Queen is also a great slave/servant unto their people. In turn, in all humility and thanks the subjects become willing slaves or servants to each other and to that greater cause offered by the King or Queen.

Regards Tony

Geez...

ALL of these self-alleged "messengers" started religions/cults, that in itself shows they had a lust for power over others. It's self evident. They all LOVED the ego boost it gave them having people look to MAN/THEM for spiritual answers, instead of going directly to GOD.

As that's the biggest lie of your mythology, that Bahá’u’lláh was THE ONLY one whom god connected with and tells all his followers that NO, they cannot, that ONLY HE can. Which I know is a flat out lie derived entirely from his own egotistical need to have poser over others. For >ALL< souls have a direct connection to God, but the Bahá’u’lláh religion and all others have broken this connection with such lies about one's own soul.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Yes, it is within us all and nature can be our greatest teacher, there is no limit to creation, it is beyond out computation and as such it has been said;

"..This being the case, how can one, without proof or testimony, conceive of creation being bound by limits? Gaze with penetrating vision into this new cycle. Hast thou seen any matter in which God is bounded by limits which He cannot overstep? Nay, by the excellence of His glory! On the contrary, His tokens have encompassed all things and are sanctified and exalted beyond computation in the world of creation.

These are spiritual truths relating to the spiritual world. In like manner, from these spiritual realities infer truths about the material world. For physical things are signs and imprints of spiritual things; every lower thing is an image and counterpart of a higher thing. Nay, earthly and heavenly, material and spiritual, accidental and essential, particular and universal, structure and foundation, appearance and reality and the essence of all things, both inward and outward -- all of these are connected one with another and are interrelated in such a manner that you will find that drops are patterned after seas, and that atoms are structured after suns in proportion to their capacities and potentialities..."

Regards Tony

Tony, thanks for this thoughts. Contemplating the nature has brought me to similar connections. Where is this quote from?

 

[CG Didymus]

That just proves the Quandary is most likely a product of our own thoughts.

If you can prove any Messenger had a Lust for power, then there may be some merit to your case put forward. A just search will find that they ever lusted for power, they gave their lives so humanity would change their hearts from darkness to light, that we can find true love.

A slave/servant in spiritual terms is a person that chooses that path. A great King or Queen is also a great slave/servant unto their people. In turn, in all humility and thanks the subjects become willing slaves or servants to each other and to that greater cause offered by the King or Queen.

Regards Tony

In any of the Abrahamic religions was there a problem with "lust" for power? Did they and are they changing hearts from darkness to light? Do they exemplify "true love"?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony, thanks for this thoughts. Contemplating the nature has brought me to similar connections. Where is this quote from?

Good evening PearlSeeker. The internet has been down for about 27 hours here, just got back on.

Thank you for the reply PearlSeeker. They are quoted from the Baha'i Writings:

I liked your screen name as it always reminds me of this passage

O My servants! My holy, My divinely ordained Revelation may be likened unto an ocean in whose depths are concealed innumerable pearls of great price, of surpassing luster. It is the duty of every seeker to bestir himself and strive to attain the shores of this ocean, so that he may, in proportion to the eagerness of his search and the efforts he hath exerted, partake of such benefits as have been pre-ordained in God’s irrevocable and hidden Tablets. If no one be willing to direct his steps towards its shores, if every one should fail to arise and find Him, can such a failure be said to have robbed this ocean of its power or to have lessened, to any degree, its treasures?........ O My servants! The one true God is My witness! This most great, this fathomless and surging Ocean is near, astonishingly near, unto you. Behold it is closer to you than your life-vein! Swift as the twinkling of an eye ye can, if ye but wish it, reach and partake of this imperishable favor, this God-given grace, this incorruptible gift, this most potent and unspeakably glorious bounty." Baha'u'llah

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In any of the Abrahamic religions was there a problem with "lust" for power? Did they and are they changing hearts from darkness to light? Do they exemplify "true love"?

The Messengers have always taught that their kingdom is not of this world, they came only to show us the spiritual path.

Yes we have the choice to change our hearts, to find True Love, which is the 2nd Birth.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In any of the Abrahamic religions was there a problem with "lust" for power? Did they and are they changing hearts from darkness to light? Do they exemplify "true love"?

There is a prayer from Baha'u'llah that Baha'i use if there are difficulties to overcome, called the Tablet of Ahmad. In fact the prayer offers the power it contains, at the end of the prayer, when it says;

"....... By God! Should one who is in affliction or grief read this Tablet with absolute sincerity, God will dispel his sadness, solve his difficulties and remove his afflictions.

Verily, He is the Merciful, the Compassionate. Praise be to God, the Lord of all the worlds." Bahá’u’lláh

So the quandary will always be ours, the start of this prayer makes the quandary as clear as day, as to me the entire prayer is a summary of the quandary the world now faces. The opening of the prayer calls the various layers of spiritual awareness back to God;

"He is the King, the All-Knowing, the Wise! Lo, the Nightingale of Paradise singeth upon the twigs of the Tree of Eternity, with holy and sweet melodies, proclaiming to the sincere ones the glad tidings of the nearness of God, calling the believers in the Divine Unity to the court of the Presence of the Generous One, informing the severed ones of the message which hath been revealed by God, the King, the Glorious, the Peerless, guiding the lovers to the seat of sanctity and to this resplendent Beauty.... "

The challenge is given in this prayer as well;

"...... Verily this is that Most Great Beauty, foretold in the Books of the Messengers, through Whom truth shall be distinguished from error and the wisdom of every command shall be tested. Verily He is the Tree of Life that bringeth forth the fruits of God, the Exalted, the Powerful, the Great....
O people, if ye deny these verses, by what proof have ye believed in God? Produce it, O assemblage of false ones.

Nay, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, they are not, and never shall be able to do this, even should they combine to assist one another.... "

You will note, that none can prove the verses wrong, as if they do, they prove their own scriptures wrong, which is an impossible task, that has been what people have tried with each Messenger God has sent, but the Word finds the sincere Souls and Souls longing for the unity and Love of God to be made manifest.

This is that prayer

Tablet of Ahmad

I wish you well CG, it may be that RF is not ready for this quandary?

Regards Tony