The Quandary

[TransmutingSoul]

It is just that and it has always been the Quandary given of God.

Either a Messenger is from God, as claimed, with the proofs and Words they offer, or they are not.

So given this is a choice, I see this is the age where humanity will achieve the unity of the Human race under One God, or it is not.

You are invited to discuss, or debate, it is your choice in doing so you accept that......

...... I will offer what I have found, if you ask or make a comment that an answer has been given to.

I see the vision of such a possibility was gifted in the 1800's, from God.

What says you?

Regards Tony

 

[Nakosis]

It is just that and it has always been the Quandary given of God.

Either a Messenger is from God, as claimed, with the proofs and Words they offer, or they are not.

So given this is a choice, I see this is the age where humanity will achieve the unity of the Human race under One God, or it is not.

You are invited to discuss, or debate, it is your choice in doing so you accept that......

...... I will offer what I have found, if you ask or make a comment that an answer has been given to.

View attachment 36920

I see the vision of such a possibility was gifted in the 1800's, from God.

What says you?

Regards Tony

Why do you think unity under one God would be a necessity?

I think this idea of one God for all is part of the problem which divides folks. No need for you to believe in the same God I do to find ways to mutually cooperate.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why do you think unity under one God would be a necessity?

I think this idea of one God for all is part of the problem which divides folks. No need for you to believe in the same God I do to find ways to mutually cooperate.

Personally I see no other way.

Can you see how the world will unite when predudices of Religion, National and Race are still permeating the mind of man?

Also to me, I see written in many Faiths, is that material greed is just another god man has created.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think this idea of one God for all is part of the problem which divides folks. No need for you to believe in the same God I do to find ways to mutually cooperate.

I agree it. Is part of the problem, but I see it is also the solution.

It is just a change in one's frame of reference. When one realises that all the good we can do, is no way owned by us, that every person is Capable of the same good, when we see the potential is owned by all of us, it is easier to see our unity and the possibility of a bigger oneness.

Regards Tony

 

[sun rise]

Either a Messenger is from God, as claimed, with the proofs and Words they offer, or they are not.

To me there is no proof of the incarnation of the Avatar nor are their words proof. Anyone can say anything and many have said and written some wonderful words. But some of those are hypocrites.

The only thing that approaches proof is the entirety of their lives and even then it's hard because such figures live in a particular time and place. So what they do depends on circumstances.

And what's worse from this perspective is that their actions are what situations require and might seem strange or even backward to ordinary people. The story of Moses and Khizr from the Quran illustrates this The Story of Moses and The Guide - IslamiCity

So given this is a choice, I see this is the age where humanity will achieve the unity of the Human race under One God, or it is not.

I believe that is coming over the next 700 years or so. And I believe we can see the first examples today in many different areas. The image I've used before is how the first hints of spring occur in the dead of winter when buds start forming and so forth.

 

[Nakosis]

I agree it. Is part of the problem, but I see it is also the solution.

It is just a change in one's frame of reference. When one realises that all the good we can do, is no way owned by us, that every person is Capable of the same good, when we see the potential is owned by all of us, it is easier to see our unity and the possibility of a bigger oneness.

Regards Tony

Was this unity under one God a prophecy?

Unless God shows up and provides a reason for all of humanity to believe in one God, I don't see it happening.

Lots of messengers about. Some people believe in the messenger, most don't. For whatever reasons. I don't see a scenario where this unity comes about. Something could happen, just not a lot of hope.

So, what do we do? Wait for this unity to occur?

 

[Quintessence]

Personally I see no other way.

Study other theological systems more and you'll find them.

Setting aside for the moment that "unity" is a questionable goal in of itself, if you want to attempt to "unite" people you need to leave room for their diversity. Monotheism is especially ill-suited for this because monotheism is inherently intolerant of other theological possibilities. This effect can be blunted somewhat with pluralism, but it doesn't change the net effect of monotheism denying the gods of other people's traditions. That's going to be inherently divisive. In order to even attempt "unity," theological diversity must be accommodated. That throws monotheism right out.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Will reply to all later, sorry off to work.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Was this unity under one God a prophecy?

If we are Bahais, we believe this unity under one common faith was ordained by God, so that means it will happen eventually.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91

Unless God shows up and provides a reason for all of humanity to believe in one God, I don't see it happening.

If we are Bahais, we believe that God showed up in the Person of Baha'u'llah, providing a reason.

So, what do we do? Wait for this unity to occur?

That is all we can do, wait, and work towards this unity.

 

[Nakosis]

If we are Bahais, we believe this unity under one common faith was ordained by God, so that means it will happen eventually.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91

If we are Bahais, we believe that God showed up in the Person of Baha'u'llah, providing a reason.

That is all we can do, wait, and work towards this unity.

That's fine, my point is I don't see humanity getting together on this on their own.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is all we can do, wait, and work towards this unity.

I see the wording the other way around.

All we can do is work towards Unity and wait for the results to come in.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Study other theological systems more and you'll find them.

Setting aside for the moment that "unity" is a questionable goal in of itself, if you want to attempt to "unite" people you need to leave room for their diversity. Monotheism is especially ill-suited for this because monotheism is inherently intolerant of other theological possibilities. This effect can be blunted somewhat with pluralism, but it doesn't change the net effect of monotheism denying the gods of other people's traditions. That's going to be inherently divisive. In order to even attempt "unity," theological diversity must be accommodated. That throws monotheism right out.

As Tony said in his OP:
"It is just that and it has always been the Quandary given of God.
Either a Messenger is from God, as claimed, with the proofs and Words they offer, or they are not."

If Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, then whatever He wrote is the Truth from God. Since He revealed that there is One True God, that would mean monotheism is the reality. Obviously, there cannot be more than one God and also one God, because that is logically inconsistent.

Monotheism is only divisive because of others who resist it for whatever reasons, but if it is true, it is true, logically speaking. Religious traditions do not make anything true, since they are just beliefs people hold.

If those gods of other peoples' traditions do not exist in reality why should we believe in them?

Unity does not mean uniformity as there can be unity in diversity.

BEAUTY AND HARMONY IN DIVERSITY

 

[Trailblazer]

I see the wording the other way around.

All we can do is work towards Unity and wait for the results to come in.

Regards Tony

Wait and work, work and wait, it all amounts to the same thing

 

[Trailblazer]

That's fine, my point is I don't see humanity getting together on this on their own.

I agree, it will not happen without assistance from God.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why do you think unity under one God would be a necessity?

I think this idea of one God for all is part of the problem which divides folks. No need for you to believe in the same God I do to find ways to mutually cooperate.

The majority of the world’s population I believe you will find believes in God.

Atheists, humanists and such are the only real division as all the others already accept some higher reality as well as spiritual values. Religions can and do find a lot more in common with each other I believe than atheists do with religion. Spiritually, the religions have a lot more in common with each other whereas atheists are opposed to religion altogether.

I was once a strong atheist. To me it was like denying the sun gives light and trying to say all our light comes from human made devices and sources which I discovered was wrong.

I believe everyone has a god even the atheist. It might be pleasure, desire or money or possessions.

So billions of people can find common ground with regards to spiritual values. They just need to mix with each other and as well we need a universal common language for all to be able to communicate and so humanity I feel is ready to unite. The minuscule number of atheists wouldn’t stop this from happening as there are billions and billions who believe in God while those opposed to religion a relative few.

The ingredients are already there for world unity I believe but it just needs maybe a Third World War to bring it about just as the first brought about the League of Nstions then the second war got us the UN. Just another little push and we’ll be united.

The quandary here is that I firmly believe that people gain benefits from being racist and prejudiced so there’s very little interest in unity when you can have your own fiefdom and all the perks that go with it. So another conflict where our survival is threatened would force us to unite I believe but it might not be another war who knows?.

 

[Ancient Soul]

It is just that and it has always been the Quandary given of God.

Either a Messenger is from God, as claimed, with the proofs and Words they offer, or they are not.

So given this is a choice, I see this is the age where humanity will achieve the unity of the Human race under One God, or it is not.

You are invited to discuss, or debate, it is your choice in doing so you accept that......

...... I will offer what I have found, if you ask or make a comment that an answer has been given to.

View attachment 36920

I see the vision of such a possibility was gifted in the 1800's, from God.

What says you?

Regards Tony

As much as I have daydreamed in the past of everyone throwing out all of the false man made mythologies/religions and finding the one true God, I have to be realistic and state that this will never happen because:

1. The vast majority of people are too spiritually broken to even begin to comprehend the true spiritual nature of God. I mean, when you have most people thinking God is some man or man-"god" as their mythologies tells them he is, there is no way they can handle the true scope, power, complexity, and vastness of the true God.

2. Even if they were given a glimmer of a peek at the true scope, power, complexity, and vastness of the true God, they would STILL reject Him because their respective religions brainwashing has left them mentally broken as well. So they would NOT be able to leave their comfy blanket/mythology behind.

3. I have TRIED to articulate even the most simplistic description of the true God that I can think of, and they STILL turn it into FUBAR. So I'm convinced they would just go on fighting among themselves making up their usual obscenities of what they think God is or isn't.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I see the wording the other way around.

All we can do is work towards Unity and wait for the results to come in.

Regards Tony

You forgot the Christian way.

Sit there and do nothing but pray their "god" does everything for them, then pat themselves on the back for having accomplished nothing.

 

[Ayjaydee]

It is just that and it has always been the Quandary given of God.

Either a Messenger is from God, as claimed, with the proofs and Words they offer, or they are not.

So given this is a choice, I see this is the age where humanity will achieve the unity of the Human race under One God, or it is not.

You are invited to discuss, or debate, it is your choice in doing so you accept that......

...... I will offer what I have found, if you ask or make a comment that an answer has been given to.

View attachment 36920

I see the vision of such a possibility was gifted in the 1800's, from God.

What says you?

Regards Tony

I cast my vote for an increase of tribalism as populations rise, resources shrink and temperatures climb.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

3. I have TRIED to articulate even the most simplistic description of the true God that I can think of, and they STILL turn it into FUBAR. So I'm convinced they would just go on fighting among themselves making up their usual obscenities of what they think God is or isn't.

The way the Quandary builds, the way I see it, is that we think we do have an idea of what is God.

I see when we know we have no way of knowing of God, except by what a Messenger has offered, then it will be this unity in a diversity of understanding that will be the foundation to our unity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I cast my vote for an increase of tribalism as populations rise, resources shrink and temperatures climb.

I do not think you will be wrong, but we will learn, even if we choose that most difficult path.

Regards Tony