The proof of Islam (in theory)

[Link]

1. There is proof God exists (won't debate this in this thread)
2. The only possible leaders to get guided by would be those appointed by God.

For clarification purposes, I'm going to paraphrase 2 differently.

2. All leaders not appointed by God are not reliable for guidance and they have no proof, and we ought to follow only on proof for guidance, and hence if guidance is to be achieved, it will be through guidance and leadership from God.

2. God's leaders guarantee guidance, and so any leaders opposed to them lead astray, and without such leaders, there is no guaranteed path for humanity to get guided upon.

2. God's connection connects to him, and everything else not connected to his connection, disconnects.

Premise 3.

3. It is upon God to guide the way, and there are misleading ways.

Paraphrase this.

3. It's upon God to show the truth and manifest it.

3. It's upon God to have a pathway to him that is based on clear proof.

3. It's upon God to establish guidance and true guidance can only be his guidance.


Premise 4.

4. We should not delegate the authority, leadership, and guidance of God's books and leaders to people not appointed by God.

4. We should not mix falsehood with truth but seek truth from those we know are guaranteed to teach it.

4. Insights all found in God's guidance, should rely God.

4. God's guidance suffices and God suffices for his servants as a Guide and helper.

Given these premises. I see Islam only as the possible religion. This is because of the literature attributed to Prophet, Fatima, and 12 Imams and because there is a Guide in this era, and because Quran is protected.

True Islam is the only guidance that possible fits the criteria (this is premise 5).

Premise 5 takes longer to prove. But I will devote time to it later.

 

[Lain]

1. There is proof God exists (won't debate this in this thread)
2. The only possible leaders to get guided by would be those appointed by God.

For clarification purposes, I'm going to paraphrase 2 differently.

2. All leaders not appointed by God are not reliable for guidance and they have no proof, and we ought to follow only on proof for guidance, and hence if guidance is to be achieved, it will be through guidance and leadership from God.

2. God's leaders guarantee guidance, and so any leaders opposed to them lead astray, and without such leaders, there is no guaranteed path for humanity to get guided upon.

2. God's connection connects to him, and everything else not connected to his connection, disconnects.

Premise 3.

3. It is upon God to guide the way, and there are misleading ways.

Paraphrase this.

3. It's upon God to show the truth and manifest it.

3. It's upon God to have a pathway to him that is based on clear proof.

3. It's upon God to establish guidance and true guidance can only be his guidance.


Premise 4.

4. We should not delegate the authority, leadership, and guidance of God's books and leaders to people not appointed by God.

4. We should not mix falsehood with truth but seek truth from those we know are guaranteed to teach it.

4. Insights all found in God's guidance, should rely God.

4. God's guidance suffices and God suffices for his servants as a Guide and helper.

Given these premises. I see Islam only as the possible religion. This is because of the literature attributed to Prophet, Fatima, and 12 Imams and because there is a Guide in this era, and because Quran is protected.

True Islam is the only guidance that possible fits the criteria (this is premise 5).

Premise 5 takes longer to prove. But I will devote time to it later.

Not sure why (assuming this argument even works) Christianity would not fit those, but I will be waiting on P5 I guess.

 

[Link]

Not sure why (assuming this argument even works) Christianity would not fit those, but I will be waiting on P5 I guess.

Short Answer: Clergy is relied upon in Christianity. Same with Rabbis in Judaism.

The issue is delegation. As the guidance of God is delegated to his chosen, this should never be delegated to non-chosen humans, like Rabbis, Priests, Muslim scholars, etc.

This is also means most of Muslims versions of Islam and versions of Islam that are known are falsehoods and not guidance as well.

 

[Lain]

Short Answer: Clergy is relied upon in Christianity. Same with Rabbis in Judaism.

The issue is delegation. As the guidance of God is delegated to his chosen, this should never be delegated to non-chosen humans, like Rabbis, Priests, Muslim scholars, etc.

This is also means most of Muslims versions of Islam and versions of Islam that are known are falsehoods and not guidance as well.

But they are chosen. Not sure where you got that, and moreover God guides them into all truth preserving the body from error (Magisterium).

 

[PureX]

I'm sorry, but that is insanely circular, incestuous logic, bordering on incoherence.

God creates a failed state. So he then appoints a few special "leaders" to impart a solution to this failed state. But they are surrounded by other leaders not appointed by God and we don't know which is which, except through the solutions they impart. But of course all the leaders are proclaiming solutions. So all we can do is pick the leaders with the solutions that we think really are solutions and then presume them to be God's special appointees, and God's solutions.

That's insane.

 

[Nakosis]

1. There is proof God exists (won't debate this in this thread)
2. The only possible leaders to get guided by would be those appointed by God.

For clarification purposes, I'm going to paraphrase 2 differently.

2. All leaders not appointed by God are not reliable for guidance and they have no proof, and we ought to follow only on proof for guidance, and hence if guidance is to be achieved, it will be through guidance and leadership from God.

2. God's leaders guarantee guidance, and so any leaders opposed to them lead astray, and without such leaders, there is no guaranteed path for humanity to get guided upon.

2. God's connection connects to him, and everything else not connected to his connection, disconnects.

Premise 3.

3. It is upon God to guide the way, and there are misleading ways.

Paraphrase this.

3. It's upon God to show the truth and manifest it.

3. It's upon God to have a pathway to him that is based on clear proof.

3. It's upon God to establish guidance and true guidance can only be his guidance.


Premise 4.

4. We should not delegate the authority, leadership, and guidance of God's books and leaders to people not appointed by God.

4. We should not mix falsehood with truth but seek truth from those we know are guaranteed to teach it.

4. Insights all found in God's guidance, should rely God.

4. God's guidance suffices and God suffices for his servants as a Guide and helper.

Given these premises. I see Islam only as the possible religion. This is because of the literature attributed to Prophet, Fatima, and 12 Imams and because there is a Guide in this era, and because Quran is protected.

True Islam is the only guidance that possible fits the criteria (this is premise 5).

Premise 5 takes longer to prove. But I will devote time to it later.

So how would God go about appointing these leaders?

 

[Link]

But they are surrounded by other leaders not appointed by God and we don't know which is which, except through the solutions they impart. But of course all the leaders are proclaiming solutions.

The leaders chosen by God have proofs from God proving them, while leaders chosen by people do not.

 

[Link]

So how would God go about appointing these leaders?

In theory, it must be in a way that clearly proves them so that people have to accept them, and not choose their own leaders.

 

[Link]

But they are chosen. Not sure where you got that, and moreover God guides them into all truth preserving the body from error (Magisterium).

Chosen has a particular meaning I have in mind. Clergy/Priests/Rabbis, etc, cannot be chosen, but rather are chosen by people same way soothsayers are chosen by people but think they are chosen by gods/angels/jinn and in turn God, but really are misguided by Devils.

Chosen ones in my paradigm have proof of being chosen by God and far exalted above normal humans.

 

[Nakosis]

In theory, it must be in a way that clearly proves them so that people have to accept them, and not choose their own leaders.

Like winning battles/wars?

 

[Link]

Like winning battles/wars?

I will give the explanation of what must fit this criteria later. For now, let's keep it simple: in theory God can provide clear proofs, and they require it if they are leaders to be followed by God's permission and command.

 

[ratiocinator]

Given these premises. I see Islam only as the possible religion.

Advice: give up trying to do logic, it's not your strong suit.

 

[Link]

Advice: give up trying to do logic, it's not your strong suit.

So just give up to caprice and irrationality?

 

[ratiocinator]

So just give up to caprice and irrationality?

Caprice and irrationality doesn't become logic if you label it 'proof' and list some of it under 'premises'.

 

[Link]

Caprice and irrationality doesn't become logic if you label it 'proof' and list some of it under 'premises'.

So what you really wanted to say, is get better at rationality and logic. Will try thanks.

 

[sun rise]

2. The only possible leaders to get guided by would be those appointed by God.

That's a bit circular to me because any who are guided by God are in a sense "appointed". And who are the appointed? Those who surrender utterly are appointed.

3. It's upon God to have a pathway to him that is based on clear proof.

The proof is not intellectual but of the heart.

4. Insights all found in God's guidance, should rely God.

That's again circular. Those who rely on God are guided by God.

So just give up to caprice and irrationality?

That's not what I'm personally suggesting. The intellect has a place but to rely wholly on it are putting their faith in the fallible and to, as it were, build sand castles, that have no permanent foundation.

If the heart is developed, it recognizes attained sufi pirs, authentic Hindu gurus, real Christian saints and so forth.

 

[Link]

That's a bit circular to me because any who are guided by God are in a sense "appointed". And who are the appointed? Those who surrender utterly are appointed.

This is not what I mean by appointed.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

1. There is proof God exists (won't debate this in this thread)
2. The only possible leaders to get guided by would be those appointed by God.

For clarification purposes, I'm going to paraphrase 2 differently.

2. All leaders not appointed by God are not reliable for guidance and they have no proof, and we ought to follow only on proof for guidance, and hence if guidance is to be achieved, it will be through guidance and leadership from God.

2. God's leaders guarantee guidance, and so any leaders opposed to them lead astray, and without such leaders, there is no guaranteed path for humanity to get guided upon.

2. God's connection connects to him, and everything else not connected to his connection, disconnects.

Premise 3.

3. It is upon God to guide the way, and there are misleading ways.

Paraphrase this.

3. It's upon God to show the truth and manifest it.

3. It's upon God to have a pathway to him that is based on clear proof.

3. It's upon God to establish guidance and true guidance can only be his guidance.


Premise 4.

4. We should not delegate the authority, leadership, and guidance of God's books and leaders to people not appointed by God.

4. We should not mix falsehood with truth but seek truth from those we know are guaranteed to teach it.

4. Insights all found in God's guidance, should rely God.

4. God's guidance suffices and God suffices for his servants as a Guide and helper.

Given these premises. I see Islam only as the possible religion. This is because of the literature attributed to Prophet, Fatima, and 12 Imams and because there is a Guide in this era, and because Quran is protected.

True Islam is the only guidance that possible fits the criteria (this is premise 5).

Premise 5 takes longer to prove. But I will devote time to it later.

You have proved nothing at all.
Circular reasoning is not proof.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Short Answer: Clergy is relied upon in Christianity. Same with Rabbis in Judaism.

The issue is delegation. As the guidance of God is delegated to his chosen, this should never be delegated to non-chosen humans, like Rabbis, Priests, Muslim scholars, etc.

This is also means most of Muslims versions of Islam and versions of Islam that are known are falsehoods and not guidance as well.

Protestant Christian denominations (with only one or two exceptions) don't have priests. They hold as a tenet of faith that there are no intermediaries between a believer and God.

Protestant pastors aren't considered to have any special power or authority.

 

[KWED]

1. There is proof God exists (won't debate this in this thread)

If you are going to make specific claims about god, first you have to prove that god exists.
As you have not established your first premise, everything that follows can be dismissed.

So, what is the proof that the god of the Quran exists?