The problem with the nine Satanic statements

[Epic Beard Man]

Is it not? I haven't read it since I was in high school (back in the 90's.)

I haven't read that far yet, considering you haven't either in a hundred years.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I have been. I'm influenced by it and consider Satan a useful archetype.

Okay. Considering humans are socially altruistic, why is Satanism hedonistic?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It'd be more accurate to say, they come up with their own standards. But, they'd generally agree that being obsessed, psychotic, or completely oblivious to the needs of others around them is not really in line with Satanic philosophy. Generally, the point of Satanism is to be in the drivers seat in your life -- it's not to be a socially awkward or careless, sex-addicted, weak, drug addict, or a ninny.

Ok.

It's about freedom, but both ways -- for the others, not just you. Anything else is hypocrisy, really. Satanism in any manifestation rejects harming people who are doing you no harm, it just doesn't have a problem if you decide to retaliate on those whom have harmed you.

Got it.

A Satanist also is aware more laws are designed to protect the innocent from the mental patients, lol. If a Satanist has a problem with a law, they're going to do what anyone else does on the issue -- petition their representatives, lobby, and do the normal thing any other citizen does. They're not going to go "**** that" and just do what they want. Most of the freedom a Satanist seeks is in their own dealings and head-space.

Freedom within the self.

My next question is what is "theistic Satanism?" I've did further research on YouTube and there is a guy who believes in conjuring up actual demons and the devil himself. What I don't understand is considering the history of conjuring ancient beings like Succubus, and imps or what not that were historically considered malevolent, why do people in these arts do this? Although I seek to be in God's light, I find these dark things very intriguing almost mesmerizing.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

@Epic Beard Man

His ignore is about my dispute with him on issues in relation to transgender politics. Nothing about my discussions of Satanism. Frankie is religiously-fluid, so I'd take his perspective with a grain of salt -- just as I would any person that is pretty eclectic in such manner.

Anyway, I have about ten years of posting on this forum about Satanism and it's various caveats. If the search function here worked a bit better I'd probably refer you to that. I've been a Satanist for 28 years, longer than most of the people around here are probably living. I've been speaking and writing on the subject since I was about 18, have published work, done various podcasts, and related. I generally don't talk about that much because I have no need to impress myself or others with that. But, for the sake of knowledge I'd just say that I'm balls deep in the subject and have no problem helping people get truthful information.

Also, there is a huge forum on Order of the Serpent, which is really a sister-site to this (it was founded by RF's LHP community, basically), and many of the discussions carry more depth than would be suitable for general admission sites like this. Anyway, if you're truly looking for detail information that's probably a better place to go and ask.

I see. Thank you

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It isn't??? Heck.....no wonder I had a hard time keeping girlfriends!

No. You obviously know according to the Qur'an, Satanists are as misguided as Jews and Christians. I don't think Satanists are anti-God. I'm sure there are some that are, but I think Satanism is the result of commercialized Christianity, and its historical oppression upon people. Not just people who look different but I think Satanism is the result of those who have different beliefs and have been persecuted for it. This is modern Christianity's handiwork.

 

[BilliardsBall]

During my days off from work I decided to indulge my intellect in purchasing the "Satanic Bible" for purposes of understanding the basic tenants of Satanism. I will just say that my prior knowledge of Satanism derived from my earlier teachings as a Baptist Christian. It's taught that Satanism is demonic, devil worshipping, cat sacrificing religion filled with people who use black lipstick bad hair cuts, black boots and women wearing fish net stockings chanting "Hail Satan!" Fast forward to now my understanding of Satanism is a lot more liberal and undefiled by fundamental Christian stereotypes. Through brief readings I can say I understand a little bit better what Satanism stands for, of course Laveyan Satanism, considering that I am aware there are other schisms in Satanism so to speak, however some Satanists will argue there is no such thing as a schism in Satanism.

I concede that I'm still ignorant of the religion of Satanism and therefore subject to being wrong, however philosophically thus far my impression of Satanism is liken to anarchists who are against the commercialization of religion and its presupposed diabolical influences to constrain mankind's pleasures. It is those constraints that keep mankind from self-realization and fully enjoying the worldly pleasures which Satan as the archetype represents. What was peculiar to me while reading the prologue I took an interest to the nine Satanic statements:

1. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years!

Interesting enough I believe the aforementioned would represent what I thought of earlier concerning the model of anti-religion through "religious anarchy." I believe these nine statements would be any person with grandiose thoughts of the self and self-indulgent, wet dream. The problem that I have is that there are no limitations to behavior, and that sensible indulgence is left unchecked on an animal (man) who left without lawful decree, can be dangerous. the problem that I'm seeing thus far is that this doctrine is creating a foundation of selfish hedonism which more often than not, can potentially lead into a destructive lifestyle.

You are correct. I can't imagine why churches would vilify a religion promoting self, vengeance and sinful indulgence.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You are correct. I can't imagine why churches would vilify a religion promoting self, vengeance and sinful indulgence.

Haven't historically, and currently Christians have done the same thing? Can't throw stones at glass houses.

 

[viole]

You are correct. I can't imagine why churches would vilify a religion promoting self, vengeance and sinful indulgence.

Well, I cannot imagine that either.

Ciao

- viole

 

[GoodbyeDave]

My next question is what is "theistic Satanism?"

The term Satanism was first used by people who considered Satan an image to aspire to, but were atheists or agnostics. LaVey was the best-known exponent of that "symbolic Satanism". Related is the Satanic Temple, a group of US atheists who are registered as a religious body for legal reasons.

Theistic Satanism is, as you might guess, theistic. Satan is accepted as a real being. Theistic Satanists are polytheists, who just tend to worship a set of deities associated (rightly or wrongly) with "Satanic" values, typically Satan, the Egyptian Set, the Norse Odin, the Greek Prometheus, and others. Like any polytheists, they base their beliefs on experience: if you can pray to a being and get their attention, they obviously exist. My favourite theistic Satanist, Diane Vera, can be found here
Theistic Satanism: Diane Vera on today's new kinds of Satanists

Personally, I think of the whole Left hand Path movement, including Satanism, in terms of the distinction in Virtue Ethics between Aristotelians and Nietzscheans. The former emphasise the social nature of mankind and see the virtuous life as involving integration into the community. The Satanists are like the Nietzscheans (and Rand) and see the ideal human as maximising their potential.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Okay. Considering humans are socially altruistic, why is Satanism hedonistic?

Not all of it is. That's a LaVeyan thing, really, because that was a backlash to transcendent "flesh vs. spirit" paradigms. It's atheistic and physicalist, so they believe in indulging their carnal desires. They view Satan as a mascot for humanity's primal instincts, a sort of deific animal force in nature. A life force, if you will. At least that's how LaVey wrote about it.

Theistic Satanists would have other views. Satanists who follow Chaos Gnosticism (Temple of the Black Light) would have views that are at the other extreme, viewing the physical as a prison for the soul and doing magick to hasten the destruction of the Cosmos.

 

[Mindmaster]

My next question is what is "theistic Satanism?" I've did further research on YouTube and there is a guy who believes in conjuring up actual demons and the devil himself. What I don't understand is considering the history of conjuring ancient beings like Succubus, and imps or what not that were historically considered malevolent, why do people in these arts do this? Although I seek to be in God's light, I find these dark things very intriguing almost mesmerizing.

Theistic Satanism is non-atheistic but may not necessarily be religious in the conventional way. That's to say, you know there is something out there that is Satan and you think he's a swell guy -- but, you don't grovel at his feet like a pet. Well, using terms like 'he' is kinda just for convenience -- it's sort of silly to anthropomorphize beings made of pure spiritual energy into genders. Regardless, it may involve ritual work, path-working, meditation, medium-ship, and so on. But, basically the prime difference is that the Theistic Satanist is more like their own priest -- it's a spiritual interpretation of the LHP which is hands on. Their experience of Satan is highly personal, and as about as different as the numbers of individuals involved. To contrast, atheistic Satanism is a philosophy more than a religion -- a theistic Satanist may embrace the same values as them, but also have this spiritual element. Atheistic Satanism is going to see Satan, demons, and so on in terms of forms, archetypes, and so on -- not literal beings.

I don't have a problem with your view, but these Satanists (self-included) don't see the world in a good-evil dichotomy per Se. I don't think Jehovah, Satan, or Hekate are in competition. Each are suited to the natures of the individuals that work with them, and the relationship can be beneficial regardless. I've never had Satan or various Demons lead me to trouble, if that's something people are wondering. Though sometimes, the effect is more than you expected. I sort of have a funny story with this, I was working with healing demons (yes, this is a thing) to help someone medically. However, little did I know the real problem was just there wasn't enough pain for the person to go to the doctor -- guess what happened. Anyway, it helped the problem -- as soon as they went it was immediately resolved but short of complete agony this person wouldn't see a doctor they'd "tough it out" even though they really needed to. That's about the most negative interaction I've had in all my years, so I guess on the scale of things that's no big deal, eh? Anyway, the demons get a bad rap, but just remember no matter what they're associated with they can be helpful like anything else. Just be careful what you ask for, because you might just get it.

 

[Father Heathen]

I haven't read that far yet, considering you haven't either in a hundred years.

I also remember that LaVey and various cohorts had also authored supplementary/companion books and pamphlets that further fleshed out their core philosophy. I had an interest in that area back then, and it was definitely influential, but a lot of it also seemed rather pretentious and juvenile to me, which is why I never fully identified with it.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Haven't historically, and currently Christians have done the same thing? Can't throw stones at glass houses.

Born again Christians promote sinful self-indulgence and vengeance?!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Born again Christians promote sinful self-indulgence and vengeance?!

Oh we born again now?

Yes. Typical Christians who are holier than thou do in fact commit sin through self indulgence. Let’s take for example the Christian who spoke on “conversion therapy” that is, to convert homosexuals to be heterosexual himself comes out as gay.

Prominent ‘gay conversion therapist’ comes out as gay

I find many Christians hypocritical in their beliefs regarding other people.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Oh we born again now?

Yes. Typical Christians who are holier than thou do in fact commit sin through self indulgence. Let’s take for example the Christian who spoke on “conversion therapy” that is, to convert homosexuals to be heterosexual himself comes out as gay.

Prominent ‘gay conversion therapist’ comes out as gay

I find many Christians hypocritical in their beliefs regarding other people.

Born again Christians PROMOTE sinful self-indulgence and vengeance? Do you feel our Lord, Jesus, promoted these things in the Bible?!

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Born again Christians PROMOTE sinful self-indulgence and vengeance? Do you feel our Lord, Jesus, promoted these things in the Bible?!

Yes. Vengeance, as when he cursed the people of Capernaum for not listening to him. (Matt. 11.23). Self-indulgence, perhaps in the case of the Gadarene swine? A farmer's livestock destroyed to demonstrate his healing powers, to say nothing of the cruelty to animals.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Yes. Vengeance, as when he cursed the people of Capernaum for not listening to him. (Matt. 11.23). Self-indulgence, perhaps in the case of the Gadarene swine? A farmer's livestock destroyed to demonstrate his healing powers, to say nothing of the cruelty to animals.

So Jesus Christ is now a follower of Himself, a "Christian"?!

God is a God of vengeance, demonstrating extraordinary patience and love throughout His justice, waiting hundreds of years to respond to Capernaum, the Canaanites, etc.

Do you think the Gadarene swine were herded by Jews in defiance of the Law? Were they wild, free roaming? Is your cruelty objection limited to animals or to the eternal spirits that begged to go into the swine rather than the eternal pit! Did the demons run the swine off the cliffs or did Jesus? Are you like the Gadarenes, begging Jesus to leave you alone, AFTER HE HEALED THE POOR DEMONIAC, showing God loves people more than swine (having died and risen for people)?!

 

[GoodbyeDave]

So Jesus Christ is now a follower of Himself, a "Christian"?!

You asked if Jesus promoted bad behaviour. I said "yes". How is that saying he was a "follower of himself"?

God is a God of vengeance…

Well, at least we agree on something! But that's one reason why I cannot accept that Yahweh is "God".

Do you think the Gadarene swine were herded by Jews in defiance of the Law?

No, they were obviously owned by a gentile, for whom Jesus showed no charity or respect.

Are you like the Gadarenes, begging Jesus to leave you alone, AFTER HE HEALED THE POOR DEMONIAC, showing God loves people more than swine…?!

He showed he loved the Jew he healed more than the gentile whose livelihood he destroyed. I think they were very restrained: they might have thrown him off the cliff. He also showed that he loved demons more than pigs!

 

[Niblo]

No. You obviously know according to the Qur'an, Satanists are as misguided as Jews and Christians.

Good day.

I'm sorry for the delayed reply to your post.

As far as I’m aware (and I stand to be corrected) Satanism is not mentioned in the Qur’an.

Not all Jews, or Christians, are said to be misguided; indeed, we are told that:

‘Those who believe, and do good deeds, are the best of creation. Their reward with their Lord is everlasting Gardens graced with flowing streams, where they will stay forever. Allāh is well pleased with them and they with Him. All this is for those who stand in awe of their Lord.’ (Al-Bayyina: 7-8).

Have a great day, and very best regards.