The Problem With Christian Privilege In The U.S. Government

[Jeremiah Ames]

I find it disgusting, not unlike much that goes on in this country since the days of Reagan.

Christians + politics = hell.
If I wasn’t so bloody old, I’d be outta here.

 

[Kenny]

No, they're establishing a prohibition based on religious belief.

I disagree. They are establishing an outlet that gives berth to freedom of religion.

But that's the premise your operating under: what difference does it make if there's someplace to go to. Thing is, there isn't necessarily someplace else to go to without instilling a burden.

Yet, you are presenting a narrative that is so unlikely. As long as there is a people of different beliefs there will be different outlets.

Well that's nice to know, but considering the many attempts by Christians to inculcate their religious beliefs into the secular operation of the country, if it wasn't for the injunction of the First Amendment those exact beliefs and practices would be in place.

1. Creationism would be taught in public school science classes.
2. People would not have to have their children inoculated because it contradicted their religious beliefs.
3. A community could declare that only symbols of the Christian faith could be erected on government property.
4. Heather Has Two Mommies and Daddy's Roommate, would not be on pubic library shelves in Wichita Falls, Texas because Christians in the community disapprove of the books' depiction of homosexuality.
5. In Alabama forty-four different elementary through high school level textbooks would be excluded from the curriculum because the school system was teaching the tenets of an anti-religious religion called "secular humanism."

1. There are already Christian schools that teach Creationism... it is another outlet.
2. There are already people who don't inoculate because of their beliefs
3. No. You could have symbols of both Christian, Jewish and whatever (already established)
4. No. However, we would not let children be brainwashed into thinking that it is normal in the public schools. It shouldn't be in curriculum
5. Doubt it.

Sounds more like "fear selling" than reality.

 

[shmogie]

.

"In this video for The Thinking Atheist, Sarah Levin, Director of Governmental Affairs for the Secular Coalition for America, does an excellent job summarizing the problem of Christian privilege:

As she says, it wasn’t that long ago that Catholics were the ones being discriminated against. But now that the Religious Right is in power, they’re perfectly fine pushing their beliefs on everyone else in a way they would never accept if it occurred in the other direction.

… If you really care about this nation living up to its values, even if you’re in the majority, even if the status quo is reflecting your beliefs, you should care about this country enough and be enough of a patriot to be willing to put that aside for the benefits of protecting religious freedom for people of all faiths and none.
​

The irony is that Levin and other activists aren’t working to impose atheism upon the country. They want a government that’s neutral when it comes to religion. And yet they’re the ones who are always unfairly deemed “militant” or “aggressive.” The Religious Right always seems to avoid those labels for no good reason.

Be sure to check out the two other videos she made here and here. [BOTH ARE WELL WORTH WATCHING]
source

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"Pushing their beliefs on everyone else¨ I would like this statement qualified with examples and legal citations. In both cases, you must prove the intent of shoving the beliefs, not concurrent belief with an act or legislation with social value,e.g. abortion, continually asserted as a religious belief of those who want it controlled, when many believe killing innocents as wrong and many have no particular religious beliefs,

Like Joe Mc Carthy and his ginned up hysteria about communists, and persecution of those suspected of nefarious motives, there are those who continually gin up hysteria about Christians, with even less evidence than ol΅ Joe had,

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I always wondered about Jefferson since I have seen quotes both for as well as against. I think I will study up on it.

As far as "why" they had those laws, certainly the "Christian nation" narrative would explain it.

James Maddison and Thomas Jefferson are essentially why America is officially secular. They both wanted religion to have absolutely nothing to do with the state, agreeing both prosper more when separated.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Pushing their beliefs on everyone else¨ I would like this statement qualified with examples and legal citations. In both cases, you must prove the intent of shoving the beliefs, not concurrent belief with an act or legislation with social value,e.g. abortion, continually asserted as a religious belief of those who want it controlled, when many believe killing innocents as wrong and many have no particular religious beliefs,

Like Joe Mc Carthy and his ginned up hysteria about communists, and persecution of those suspected of nefarious motives, there are those who continually gin up hysteria about Christians, with even less evidence than ol΅ Joe had,

In Indianapolis, a judge ordered a divorcing couple (both Wiccan) to not expose their children to "non-mainstream religions."

 

[shmogie]

Did you know 7 states have laws that restrict atheists from holding public office? Christian privilege DOES exist. Now, if you would please tell me, do you support or oppose laws that ban atheists from holding public offices?

As an Evangelical Christian, who has had an education in the law (criminal law), Banning atheists in this context is certainly wrong.

 

[Orbit]

In Indianapolis, a judge ordered a divorcing couple (both Wiccan) to not expose their children to "non-mainstream religions."

It's funny that you mention that -- do you have a link or a reference for it? I'm in the middle of writing an article on how hegemonic Christianity misunderstands and discriminates against pagans. I'd love to include that case.

 

[shmogie]

Christians have been whining for 2000 years to be oppressed. They are just spoiled brats. The moment you object that their beliefs are not more important than the beliefs of some other religion, they think you send them to the lions.

Ciao

-viole

Atheists have been whining about Christians for a long time as well. I don care what you think about my beliefs, that is your problem, not mine. Why should I give a rats rear about what you think ?

 

[shmogie]

It's funny that you mention that -- do you have a link or a reference for it? I'm in the middle of writing an article on how hegemonic Christianity misunderstands and discriminates against pagans. I'd love to include that case.

That is illegal, there had to be other factors. Based upon my research, Wiccan beliefs are pretty harmless in the physical realm, and though I believe they are totally misguided in the spiritual realm, that is irrelevant.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's funny that you mention that -- do you have a link or a reference for it? I'm in the middle of writing an article on how hegemonic Christianity misunderstands and discriminates against pagans. I'd love to include that case.

Judge: Parents can't teach pagan beliefs
Judge: Parents Can't Teach Pagan Beliefs - Legal Reader
Im unable to find the original article ran jn the Indy Star

 

[Skwim]

Sounds more like "fear selling" than reality.

1.There are already Christian schools that teach Creationism... it is another outlet.

Not talking about Christian schools, but public schools.

2. There are already people who don't inoculate because of their beliefs

Then they would be breaking the law

3. No. You could have symbols of both Christian, Jewish and whatever (already established)

Okay, you simply have a reading problem. Try reading my statements again.

4. No. However, we would not let children be brainwashed into thinking that it is normal in the public schools. It shouldn't be in curriculum

As the homophobia surfaces above muck. But as a reminder; homosexuality is normal, it just isn't common. And who said anything about curriculum? They were books in the public library.

5. Doubt it.

Then look it up

.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That is illegal, there had to be other factors. Based upon my research, Wiccan beliefs are pretty harmless in the physical realm, and though I believe they are totally misguided in the spiritual realm, that is irrelevant.

The only other factor is Indiana is a land of conservative Christian ********. As far as the parents go, there were no other factors.

 

[shmogie]

James Maddison and Thomas Jefferson are essentially why America is officially secular. They both wanted religion to have absolutely nothing to do with the state, agreeing both prosper more when separated.

Wrong. People read the Constitution and assume it says what isn´t there. What Madison and Jefferson may have wanted is irrelevant, the words of the first amendment are what counts.

The establishment clause had one purpose, to proscribe an authorized, approved , supported government religion. The original intent is clear, this is a rebuke of the British system.

There is no government religion, yet there is no prohibition in the government interacting with religions.

The wall between church and state does not exist in the constitution, it is a legal construct written about by a Founder or two, but never legally considered till the 1960´s.

It has reached a pretty sad state when a teacher in Dec. is terrified to give kids candy canes because she could be fired for promoting Christmas.

 

[shmogie]

The only other factor is Indiana is a land of conservative Christian ********. As far as the parents go, there were no other factors.

Citation please

 

[Shadow Wolf]

the words of the first amendment are what counts.

The First isn't the only bit of the Constitution that dictates the secular nature of the US. The first prohibits the state from respecting the establishment of religion. Elsewhere, not an amendment, tests of faith to hold public office are prohibited.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Citation please

I did give my links to the story. And I used to live in Indiana, and suffered the Conservative pricks of that state who are fundamentally incapable of minding their own business (its how the case in question came to be). In all reality, over doing nothing that was harming them or of any concern of theirs, and I was told to leave the state, multiple times.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I always wondered about Jefferson since I have seen quotes both for as well as against. I think I will study up on it.

My understanding is that he could be called a secular Christian. He agreed with the moral teachings of Jesus but did not believe in the miracles described in the Bible, which is why he "wrote" (or re-compiled) his own version of the gospels that excluded the alleged "supernatural" events.

 

[Road Warrior]

.

"In this video for The Thinking Atheist, Sarah Levin, Director of Governmental Affairs for the Secular Coalition for America, does an excellent job summarizing the problem of Christian privilege:

As she says, it wasn’t that long ago that Catholics were the ones being discriminated against. But now that the Religious Right is in power, they’re perfectly fine pushing their beliefs on everyone else in a way they would never accept if it occurred in the other direction.

… If you really care about this nation living up to its values, even if you’re in the majority, even if the status quo is reflecting your beliefs, you should care about this country enough and be enough of a patriot to be willing to put that aside for the benefits of protecting religious freedom for people of all faiths and none.
​

The irony is that Levin and other activists aren’t working to impose atheism upon the country. They want a government that’s neutral when it comes to religion. And yet they’re the ones who are always unfairly deemed “militant” or “aggressive.” The Religious Right always seems to avoid those labels for no good reason.

Be sure to check out the two other videos she made here and here. [BOTH ARE WELL WORTH WATCHING]
source

.​

She makes an excellent spin on the White Privilege meme. What she, or those whining about "White Privilege", don't get is that a democracy is the will of the majority.

Remember those dummies who want to get rid of the Electoral College and go for a pure democracy? They won't like the results since a pure democracy would most certainly go to the majority. What kind of idiot can't read demographics?

 

[Revoltingest]

Separation of Church and State benefits even Christians?

A fundie (Baptist) Christian friend supported separation of
church & state for that reason. He was concerned that if
the state got involved, it would deliver some watered down,
one size fits all, bastardized Christianity. He liked his religion
old school literal Bible.
Sound odd? Well, he was an engineer...my mentor on my
first job at Northrop (F18 program). We had lively discussions.


A real problem with embedding Christianity in government....
When I testify in court, I have a choice.
1) Pretend to be Christian, & swear an oath to God.
2) Ask for a secular oath, which announces reason to suspect
my being an apostate, a heathen, a reprobate, a God hater.

#1 is too offensive to endure.
#2 risks religious bigotry of a judge or jury affecting the outcome.
Some religious folk don't believe atheists have morals.)

 

[shmogie]

I did give my links to the story. And I used to live in Indiana, and suffered the Conservative pricks of that state who are fundamentally incapable of minding their own business (its how the case in question came to be). In all reality, over doing nothing that was harming them or of any concern of theirs, and I was told to leave the state, multiple times.

Told to leave the state ? Or ?