The Problem of Democracy

[Nakosis]

​

Democracy’s doubters tend to accuse democracy of suffering from at least five significant design flaws:

• Short-termism: Due to their electoral cycles, democracies struggle to focus on long-term problems and usually remain mired in short-term policy approaches.
• Pain aversion: To the limited extent they do manage to look to the long term, democratic politicians are averse to imposing near-term pain for long-term gain because of their need to keep voters happy for the next election.
• Elite capture: By opening up decision-making power to competition among politicians who are constantly in need of money for elections, democratic systems are prone to becoming captured by the wealthy.
• Division and conflict: Competitive elections foment or exacerbate destructive societal divisions, generating conflict and undercutting a strong sense of national unity and purpose.
• Voter ignorance: Relying on ordinary citizens to choose leaders and make judgments among them based on policy performance condemns democracies to leadership and policy choices that reflect chronic voter ignorance and irrationality.

Is Democracy the Problem?

Do you agree? Do you see any solutions?

 

[Twilight Hue]

​

Democracy’s doubters tend to accuse democracy of suffering from at least five significant design flaws:

• Short-termism: Due to their electoral cycles, democracies struggle to focus on long-term problems and usually remain mired in short-term policy approaches.
• Pain aversion: To the limited extent they do manage to look to the long term, democratic politicians are averse to imposing near-term pain for long-term gain because of their need to keep voters happy for the next election.
• Elite capture: By opening up decision-making power to competition among politicians who are constantly in need of money for elections, democratic systems are prone to becoming captured by the wealthy.
• Division and conflict: Competitive elections foment or exacerbate destructive societal divisions, generating conflict and undercutting a strong sense of national unity and purpose.
• Voter ignorance: Relying on ordinary citizens to choose leaders and make judgments among them based on policy performance condemns democracies to leadership and policy choices that reflect chronic voter ignorance and irrationality.

Is Democracy the Problem?

Do you agree? Do you see any solutions?

Democracy isn't perfect and neither is socialism/communism.

I would say the problems are not the political structure but rather the extremes of all political systems.

That would entail a degree of moderation to keep things balanced and not out of wack.

Traditionally democracy isn't as effective for larger populations and communism while effective for large population control, leads to heinous repercussions in terms of liberty and human rights.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Ol' Winston was right on this one; the problem with any democracy, is it's electorate.

He also said that democracy was the worst form of government, apart from all the others.

 

[Laika]

Do you see any solutions?

There are plenty of things you can do. Proper civics education for young people, media regulation to prevent the most grotesque disinformation, breaking up media corporations so they don't have effective control over public opinion, reforming the electoral system so it's genuinely competitive, give third-parties a greater chance, perhaps even public funding for parties and electoral campaigns, reduce the voting age to 16, voting rights for prisoners, making voting as easy as humanly possible by postal voting, etc. The UK could abolish the monarchy and the house of Lords to elect a second chamber and a head of state, or have an devolved English (and Cornish) assembly.

But it's not going to happen because nobody has the power to pass that kind of legislation through the institutions we currently have and those who could, really don't care and everyone knows it. And that kind of demoralising inertia that makes you want to smash your head against the wall is entirely self-perpetuating and self-sustaining. What fun!

 

[The Hammer]

​

Democracy’s doubters tend to accuse democracy of suffering from at least five significant design flaws:

• Short-termism: Due to their electoral cycles, democracies struggle to focus on long-term problems and usually remain mired in short-term policy approaches.
• Pain aversion: To the limited extent they do manage to look to the long term, democratic politicians are averse to imposing near-term pain for long-term gain because of their need to keep voters happy for the next election.
• Elite capture: By opening up decision-making power to competition among politicians who are constantly in need of money for elections, democratic systems are prone to becoming captured by the wealthy.
• Division and conflict: Competitive elections foment or exacerbate destructive societal divisions, generating conflict and undercutting a strong sense of national unity and purpose.
• Voter ignorance: Relying on ordinary citizens to choose leaders and make judgments among them based on policy performance condemns democracies to leadership and policy choices that reflect chronic voter ignorance and irrationality.

Is Democracy the Problem?

Do you agree? Do you see any solutions?

Ol' Winston was right on this one; the problem with any democracy, is it's electorate.

He also said that democracy was the worst form of government, apart from all the others.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/...ing-on-democracy-has-more-relevance-than-ever

Aristotle would agree.

 

[Stevicus]

​

Democracy’s doubters tend to accuse democracy of suffering from at least five significant design flaws:

• Short-termism: Due to their electoral cycles, democracies struggle to focus on long-term problems and usually remain mired in short-term policy approaches.
• Pain aversion: To the limited extent they do manage to look to the long term, democratic politicians are averse to imposing near-term pain for long-term gain because of their need to keep voters happy for the next election.
• Elite capture: By opening up decision-making power to competition among politicians who are constantly in need of money for elections, democratic systems are prone to becoming captured by the wealthy.
• Division and conflict: Competitive elections foment or exacerbate destructive societal divisions, generating conflict and undercutting a strong sense of national unity and purpose.
• Voter ignorance: Relying on ordinary citizens to choose leaders and make judgments among them based on policy performance condemns democracies to leadership and policy choices that reflect chronic voter ignorance and irrationality.

Is Democracy the Problem?

Do you agree? Do you see any solutions?

Democracy is a sacred cow and an opiate of the masses. Other than the level of a town meeting where everyone is present, is allowed to speak, and everyone gets to see how everyone else votes, then it's always going to be a bit squirrely, at best.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There are plenty of things you can do. Proper civics education for young people, media regulation to prevent the most grotesque disinformation, breaking up media corporations so they don't have effective control over public opinion, reforming the electoral system so it's genuinely competitive, give third-parties a greater chance, perhaps even public funding for parties and electoral campaigns, reduce the voting age to 16, voting rights for prisoners, making voting as easy as humanly possible by postal voting, etc. The UK could abolish the monarchy and the house of Lords to elect a second chamber and a head of state, or have an devolved English (and Cornish) assembly.

But it's not going to happen because nobody has the power to pass that kind of legislation through the institutions we currently have and those who could, really don't care and everyone knows it. And that kind of demoralising inertia that makes you want to smash your head against the wall is entirely self-perpetuating and self-sustaining. What fun!

It's because nobody like authoritarian rule unless your perchance the authoritarian ruler, and thus conveniently exempted.

 

[sun rise]

@Twilight Hue 's points I mostly agree with. I'd add a quote that the internet attributes to multiple sources: "People get the government they deserve."

Personally I'd be in favor of something like Plato's "philosopher kings" but the odds of a truly wise ruler are about as close to zero as possible.

Even if such a person existed, those who disagreed with wise decisions would yell loudly that the person was not truly wise.

 

[Nakosis]

Democracy isn't perfect and neither is socialism/communism.

I would say the problems are not the political structure but rather the extremes of all political systems.

That would entail a degree of moderation to keep things balanced and not out of wack.

Traditionally democracy isn't as effective for larger populations and communism while effective for large population control, leads to heinous repercussions in terms of liberty and human rights.

I suspect the problem is that any political position comes with degree of power, usually for 4 years. Maybe people get into politics for the right reasons, but people start to lose the ability to empathize with those without power.
The longer one is in politics, the more power they gain, the less empathy they have for the "little people".

I of course would be immune to this.
Probably not.

I don't blame the politicians as much as human nature. The two party system we have in the US allows each party to deflect the blame onto the other party while ensuring for themselves at least a 30% base support at the polls.

 

[RestlessSoul]

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/...ing-on-democracy-has-more-relevance-than-ever

Aristotle would agree.

It's interesting that at the time of the Persian wars, women in democratic Athens had no rights in law at all, whereas in fully militarised Sparta with it's absolute monarchs, women, at least those born into the right families, had full legal citizenship.

 

[The Hammer]

It's interesting that at the time of the Persian wars, women in democratic Athens had no rights in law at all, whereas in fully militarised Sparta with it's absolute monarchs, women, at least those born into the right families, had full legal citizenship.

Yeah it is. And the article mentioned that we would still find Aristotle's views on Women to be a bit backwards for sure.

The Northmen (Germanic people's, like Vikings) were rather progressive irt women's rights. They could divorce their husbands and even inherit property.

 

[Augustus]

Do you see any solutions?

• Short-termism:
• Pain aversion:
• Elite capture:
• Division and conflict:
• Voter ignorance:

Select half of the government via sortition: random selection from all eligible adults (a bit like jury duty).

Mitigates all of the above issues.

More democratic and representative as all sectors of society would be represented, weakens political parties and partisanship, no need for reelection so less short-termism and pain aversion, voter ignorance diminished as vote less important.

 

[Estro Felino]

People might be unexperienced.
Bakers, farmers, carpenters...are the pride of a Nation because they make the system work.

The politicians who studied law and economics, have a huge responsibility .
Because they are supposed to pursue the common interest. Being a politician is never a pleasure. It is the most difficult job ever.

I am a Populist. I may have ten degrees in Law, Finance, Economics, etc...but I consider the People sacred. I am equal to the factory worker or the farmer.
Five minutes with the average voter is like oxygen to me. It is vital.

 

[The Hammer]

• Short-termism:
• Pain aversion:
• Elite capture:
• Division and conflict:
• Voter ignorance:

Select half of the government via sortition: random selection from all eligible adults (a bit like jury duty).

Mitigates all of the above issues.

More democratic and representative as all sectors of society would be represented, weakens political parties and partisanship, no need for reelection so less short-termism and pain aversion, voter ignorance diminished as vote less important.

The down side is, as a country of laws. An actual informed account of what laws there are and how they work is necessary. Which is why a lot of politicians have Law degrees.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Yeah it is. And the article mentioned that we would still find Aristotle's views on Women to be a bit backwards for sure.

The Northmen (Germanic people's, like Vikings) were rather progressive irt women's rights. They could divorce their husbands and even inherit property.

and could join in on the 'Viking'...

 

[osgart]

Eliminate corporate rights and interests from government influence. Reform the media and education systems. Unhook democracy from capitalism. Wealth controls democracy as it is. This is not a true democracy in America. It's always been controlled by the wealthy.

Republicans are first and foremost capitalists only desiring unfettered capitalism.

There has to be a system of cooperation where it is necessary to pool our resources into solving real world problems. We never had that. Perhaps invent a cooperative currency.

There has to be give back to the everyday people. A give back to the natural world.

Democracy has never ever been something that people have really ever believed in, nor truly invested in. America is named as a republic. But capitalism rules the country. Competition is about creating winners and losers. Capitalists don't invest any effort in improving citizens lives.

Capitalism should be put in it's proper place because it's a lousy form of government.

 

[Augustus]

The down side is, as a country of laws. An actual informed account of what laws there are and how they work is necessary. Which is why a lot of politicians have Law degrees.

Politicians are not selected or elected due their knowledge of laws or governance.

People can learn what they need to just as well as any elected politician can. They will also bring a wider range of experiences which will help the system.

 

[Rival]

Capitalism should be put in it's proper place because it's a lousy form of government.

Capitalism is an economic system, not a form of government.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The US system worked, until recently. There were still problems with it, but we had a balance for the drawbacks of both short term and long term tendencies. The House has a two year term. The means the politicians are almost always campaigning there. There is a lot of pressure to contribute ideas. Most of our new ideas arose in the House. The Senate has a long term of six years. That means that a flash in the pan idea will not get you reelected. They are supposed to be the moderating force of your government. And the President is somewhere in between with a four year term limited to only two. We will recover from our present state.

 

[Estro Felino]

Eliminate corporate rights and interests from government influence. Reform the media and education systems. Unhook democracy from capitalism. Wealth controls democracy as it is. This is not a true democracy in America. It's always been controlled by the wealthy.

Republicans are first and foremost capitalists only desiring unfettered capitalism.

There has to be a system of cooperation where it is necessary to pool our resources into solving real world problems. We never had that. Perhaps invent a cooperative currency.

There has to be give back to the everyday people. A give back to the natural world.

Democracy has never ever been something that people have really ever believed in, nor truly invested in. America is named as a republic. But capitalism rules the country. Competition is about creating winners and losers. Capitalists don't invest any effort in improving citizens lives.

Capitalism should be put in it's proper place because it's a lousy form of government.

We have a Constitution which is considered one of the best as for workers's rights.
The problem is that our politicians forgot our Constitution or rather they pretend they have forgotten about it.

Art. 41 Italian Constitution
"Private economic enterprise is free.
It may not be carried out against the common good or in such a manner that could damage safety, liberty and human dignity.
The law shall provide for appropriate programs and controls so that the public and private-sector economic activity may be oriented and coordinated for social purposes."

Or rather the infamous EU forces our politicians to disredard the Constitution.
Thank God the British left that dictatorship.


I think the US should have an art 41 too