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the prince of peace?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by waitasec, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

    Jun 1, 2005

    No. Only on Mondays. :149: But all too often, I wake up ****** at someone, or I go to bed mad at someone. I usually start my morning by gossiping with my friends, if not fighting with my parents about the boyfriend who is not a Christian and whose morals they are not too impressed with. They aren't very impressed with my morals, either. I lie to cover for people a lot, and I lie to cover for myself a lot.

    Of course, I do volunteer work and I WANT to be a nice young lady, but if you asked me if I were a good person, I would answer with a resounding no. The fact is, even when people want to be good, we too often are not. We don't necessarily want to commit evil acts, but we are drawn to them in many cases.

    First, God saw His initial creation of man as good:

    Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
    Genesis 1:31

    Secondly, He warned that eating of the tree would expose man to both good and evil:

    For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
    Genesis 3:5

    Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—

    Genesis 3:22

    And that this exposure would continue throughout the generations, not just with Adam and Eve. i.e. we all continue to have knowledge of good and evil as adults, though you and I did not physically eat from the tree:

    Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.
    Deuteronomy 1:39

    The Bible also makes it clear that humans have the choice to commit evil or good:

    See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
    Deuteronomy 30:15

    Or if a person swears, speaking thoughtlessly with his lips to do evil or to do good, whatever it is that a man may pronounce by an oath, and he is unaware of it—when he realizes it, then he shall be guilty in any of these matters.
    Leviticus 5:4

    We then understand that God sees us as fully able, and in fact expects us, to choose to be good:

    And you shall do what is right and good in the sight of the LORD, that it may be well with you, and that you may go in and possess the good land of which the LORD swore to your fathers,
    Deuteronomy 6:18

    Observe and obey all these words which I command you, that it may go well with you and your children after you forever, when you do what is good and right in the sight of the LORD your God.
    Deuteronomy 12:28

    And furthermore, the Bible tells us that we are taught to do good:

    Moreover, as for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you; but I will teach you the good and the right way.

    1 Samuel 12:23

    Lastly, we are taught that there is punishment for not doing good:

    This thing that you have done is not good. As the LORD lives, you deserve to die, because you have not guarded your master, the LORD’s anointed. And now see where the king’s spear is, and the jug of water that was by his head.”
    1 Samuel 26:16

    These are just the passages I could find in the first few books. There are many more that discuss good and evil, for whoever cares to search.

    Lol, as far as I'm aware worms don't actually think at all. Just be nice enough to move it off the sidewalk. I hate to watch them burn up there.

    How do you feel that I'm limiting myself? My faith is based on love. Haven't I already said that if I died right now, I would probably be hell-bound? That scares me, sure, but I believe in and love God, hell or no hell.
  2. waitasec

    waitasec Veteran Member

    Jul 14, 2010
    i'm going for something a deeper, it's the sense of belonging to something that is greater than you. the best way i can explain it is when i first found out i was pregnant. i felt a connection to the cycle of life and it changed my perspective forever.
    sure the purpose for unity can be manipulated but we are all attracted to it, right?
    from a youth group at church to a concert or a national memorial. do you know what i mean?

    well i for one disagree, only because this life is so much more than about me. "i am not the center of the world or of a divine designer and there's nothing special just about being me or i wouldn't be of the opinion of 'why wouldn't god be on my side' " (i paraphrased christopher hitchens)
    see in this you find an unsuspecting turn, all of the sudden the believer is, for lack of a better word, arrogant, and the unbeliever is humbled.
    it's like looking through a peep hole and expecting whatever it is you see is small enough to fit into your limited capacity of understanding (the worm example) while the unbeliever looks through the same peep hole and recognizes they are too small. sure a worm may not be sentient lets use a chimpanzee, who who does have a sense of self. would you care what a chimp thinks of you?

    i'm looking at the bigger picture. i brought up constantine because i wanted to give you an example of how the roman catholic church was able to maintain power and control over the people. by dividing them (hierarchy) and with fear, do this or you will suffer eternal suffering.

    i think it's any time you sin against your truth. your integrity and betray your self respect is when you are in danger of compromising your principals.

    but again, the name they would have called themselves would be MUDD...
    this sense of pride in unity is what the founding church fathers used as a means to maintain their control over people.

  3. waitasec

    waitasec Veteran Member

    Jul 14, 2010
    it's interesting to me, with all these scriptures indicating we have the ability to be good, you still think people are fundamentally evil.

    my life experience has shown me otherwise...
    i lost lost my keys and cell phone at disneyland and someone returned them to lost and found. anther time i lost my wallet in a supermarket, same thing.
    strangers have helped me when i needed assistance. and again i think of the shooting in tucson and how people risked their lives to save others...
    there is a lot of good in this world, with or without faith in god...
  4. mohammed_beiruti

    mohammed_beiruti Active Member

    Aug 30, 2008
    as a believer I will choose to be near God , because I am sure I will feel peace.
  5. waitasec

    waitasec Veteran Member

    Jul 14, 2010
    but how can you be sure?
    do you feel peace thinking your mother will live in eternal torment?