1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The price a Catholic pays for being in the public arena

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by pearl, May 21, 2022.

  1. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    7,851
    Ratings:
    +4,370
    Religion:
    Catholic
    I remember when the same action was taken against John Kerry, denying of the Eucharist. What the bishop in this case is advocating is single issue voting.

    From the article;
    Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco is barring Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi from receiving Communion in his archdiocese. Ms. Pelosi, a life-long Catholic, has recently vowed to codify Roe v. Wade, in order to preserve a legal right to abortion in case the Supreme Court overturns the decision that legalized abortion in the United States.

    “Unfortunately, Speaker Pelosi’s position on abortion has become only more extreme over the years, especially in the last few months,” Archbishop Cordileone said in a statement May 20. “Just earlier this month she once again, as she has many times before, explicity raised her Catholic faith while justifying abortion as a ‘choice,’ this time explicitly setting herself in opposition to Pope Francis.”

    Last fall, Archbishop Cordileone organized a prayer and fasting campaign for Ms. Pelosi. “A conversion of heart of the majority of our congressional representatives is needed on this issue, beginning with the leader of the House,” he said in a statement Sept. 29. “I am therefore inviting all Catholics to join in a massive and visible campaign of prayer and fasting for Speaker Pelosi: Commit to praying one rosary a week and fasting on Fridays for her conversion of heart.”

    Pope Francis has said that he has never denied Communion to anyone. “When the church, in order to defend a principle, acts in a non-pastoral way, it takes sides on the political plane. It has always been so,” Francis said last September on the flight back to Rome from Bratislava. “Be a pastor. Don’t go condemning.”

    Archbishop bars Nancy Pelosi from Communion in her home diocese, citing ‘aggressive’ defense of abortion rights | America Magazine
     
    • Informative Informative x 6
  2. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    18,336
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    Christianity
    Are we speaking of the same Nancy D'Alesandro who had this stance on late-term abortions?
    Pelosi Statement on Supreme Court's Decision on Late-Term Abortions

    I am sorry, if one wants to be a representative of a secular state where there is the separation of Church and State, they need to pay the price. And that price includes to be excluded from certain religious practices by your Bishop.

    Not only her. I too would be barred from Communion by my Bishop, if I were a staunch late-term abortions apologist and an active politician, upholding abortion.

    If I decided to defend abortion as a right (and I do defend it), I would be disposed to pay the price to renounce Communion all my life long.
    You cannot have the cake and eat it. The separation of State and Church implies a choice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    7,851
    Ratings:
    +4,370
    Religion:
    Catholic
    For the same reason Clinton vetoed it, no clause for the protection of the mothers health.

    There is a difference, voting for a single issue, or in spite of a single issue.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    18,336
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    Christianity
    I did not get this. Could you elaborate, please?:)
     
  5. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    27,131
    Ratings:
    +18,057
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    So, it's just in that particular diocese? And Pope Francis says that he never denies Communion to anyone. I guess she could go to another diocese. I'm no Pelosi fan, but it seems this Archbishop is being ridiculous, possibly looking for a way to get into the limelight.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    10,612
    Ratings:
    +9,684
    Religion:
    none
    The bishop thinks taking a political stance helps against his congregation haemorrhaging members. It works with the Baptists but may backfire with Catholics. Despite many of them being very conservative he may underestimate how progressive the "silent majority" is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Student People Stabber

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    83,208
    Ratings:
    +36,833
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    Yeah, I thought that stuff was supposed to be kept private anyways.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    18,336
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    Christianity
    If I understood correctly she lives on the East Coast, most of the time.
    Right?
     
    #8 Estro Felino, May 21, 2022
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
  9. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    18,336
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    Christianity
    As far as I know, the United States Evangelical Church is against abortion.
    So is the RCC.
     
    #9 Estro Felino, May 21, 2022
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
  10. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    18,336
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    Christianity
    The Pope has taken a clear stance towards Italian Nationalists. Publicly. Not privately.
     
  11. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    27,131
    Ratings:
    +18,057
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Well, her home district is in California, but yes, representatives and senators typically have homes in the DC area and probably spend more time there than in their home state.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    10,612
    Ratings:
    +9,684
    Religion:
    none
    "A recent Marist poll for the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic organization, gives us some relevant data. Self-described Catholics are closely split on whether they describe themselves as pro-choice (49 percent) or pro-life (48 percent). “Practicing Catholics” are heavily on the pro-life side (64 to 33 percent). Non-practicing Catholics are nearly a mirror image (64 to 34 percent pro-choice)." from What the Polls Say about Catholics and Abortion | National Review
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  13. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    18,336
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    Christianity
    This makes sense.
    But it is not all black and white. There are so many shades inbetween. Between being inflexibly anti-abortion and being for late-term abortions.

    I know no Catholic who is for late-term abortions.
     
  14. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    35,443
    Ratings:
    +15,759
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    I'm sorry, pearl. I feel like this is what happened to the protestants here (from the 1850s to the 1970s) which then spread to you catholics. Perhaps you'd benefit from reading up on the division which happened here and which has spread to you. Essentially the Christians here focused on 2 major goals. One group focused upon maintaining a correct view of scripture, and it was this group which divided almost every church and caused ten thousand church divisions. I say group but it was more of a movement. This divided the church here into the fundamentalists and the liberals while doing absolutely nothing to help the country, the poor, anything really. It was a dead movement focused upon scriptural correctness only, promising everything and delivering nothing. Now that same storm is headed for your group, and you may want to look into how we mishandled the situation but also look into the rare exceptions for inspiration. Some churches didn't divide and some even maintained both fundamentalists and liberals. How did they do it? I don't know, but it might be a good idea to find out.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  15. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    18,336
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    Christianity
    He is not ridiculous.
    He just reminds Catholics that one cannot wear a mask, a disguise inside the Lord's house.
     
  16. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    27,131
    Ratings:
    +18,057
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Yes, but why make such a public, grandstand play like that? Seems motivated more by political reasons than anything related to one's devotion to God.

    And why take a stance just on this issue? Has the Church ever denied Communion to any Catholic politicians who vote for war? What about those who support big banking and corporate greed?

    Maybe if the churches took a more righteous stance on these things, they might get more people in the pews.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    18,336
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    Christianity
    Catholic priests and bishops already do that, I can promise you that:).
    I must have heard tens of homilies against greed and social injustice, in my life.

    Nancy D'Alesandro is not the first politician to whom a Catholic Bishop denied Communion.

    And by the way, the Pope has refused to meet Salvini. If the Pope can take this kind of decision, so can the Archbishop of San Francisco.
     
  18. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    27,131
    Ratings:
    +18,057
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Yes, but do they ever deny a politician communion based on greed and social injustice?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. Left Coast

    Left Coast Still Gay
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    8,240
    Ratings:
    +13,578
    Religion:
    It's Complicated
    It's the Archdiocese which covers multiple Bay Area counties. She could probably still go to a parish in Washington when she's there, depending on who the priest is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    18,336
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    Christianity
    This is put into the priest/bishop's conscience.
    It is up to them.
    I know for sure that in Sicily bishops have barred mobsters from the Communion...so...we can say that those criminals are certainly greedy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...