The Presidential election France.

[England my lionheart]

After the first round of the presidential election in France the French people are left with two choices,Macron or Le Pen,le Republic en marche or National Assembly of France,the first round was close but I think Macron will just make it but it will be close.

It’s quite worrying that the far right has grown so much in europe and in a country that suffered so much under fascism,if Le Pen wins it would be devastating for France and Europe and the EU as a whole,a far right president who admires Putin imagine that,Putin would be so happy.

Does the French election confirm the rise of the far right and not just in France but Europe as a whole?.

 

[Secret Chief]

After the first round of the presidential election in France the French people are left with two choices,Macron or Le Pen,le Republic en marche or National Assembly of France,the first round was close but I think Macron will just make it but it will be close.

It’s quite worrying that the far right has grown so much in europe and in a country that suffered so much under fascism,if Le Pen wins it would be devastating for France and Europe and the EU as a whole,a far right president who admires Putin imagine that,Putin would be so happy.

Does the French election confirm the rise of the far right and not just in France but Europe as a whole?.

Sounds like one for @ChristineM

Perhaps Le Pen is another one on Putin's payroll.

 

[England my lionheart]

Sounds like one for @ChristineM

I reckon too,it’s mostly worrying that Le Pen has many young people voting for her.

 

[metis]

Perhaps Le Pen is another one on Putin's payroll.

She would fit in with a loving menage a trois with Putin and Trump-- but please spare me the visuals--gag!

 

[Harel13]

It’s quite worrying that the far right has grown so much in europe and in a country that suffered so much under fascism

Although I wouldn't say it's surprising. Circa WWI nationalism was at its height. The Soviet Union which rose near the end of the war stifled the nationalism of the countries it took over. Others continued rolling until WWII. The end of the war, the fallout, the Cold War etc stifled much of the nationalism in Europe and for a time (decades) there was an attempt at multiculturalism. But this in many respects has failed, particularly with the Muslim immigrants, but not limited to them. It seems that many in Europe are tired of multiculturalism and wish to see a return to the glory days of their countries, as independent, individual nations, each with its own unique culture and ethnicity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Oh, please. Le Pen is not "far-right". She's just a populist conservative, which apparently equals "neo-Nazi" to some. She kicked all the extremists out of her party (including her father) and made it much more mainstream, including changing the name.

 

[ChristineM]

After the first round of the presidential election in France the French people are left with two choices,Macron or Le Pen,le Republic en marche or National Assembly of France,the first round was close but I think Macron will just make it but it will be close.

It’s quite worrying that the far right has grown so much in europe and in a country that suffered so much under fascism,if Le Pen wins it would be devastating for France and Europe and the EU as a whole,a far right president who admires Putin imagine that,Putin would be so happy.

Does the French election confirm the rise of the far right and not just in France but Europe as a whole?.

The third candidate with 20% is far left. His votere are not going to vote for le pen.

Le Pen reached the second round last time with less than 3% of the vote between her and Macron.

As to a right wing swing, it's happening world wide.

 

[ChristineM]

Oh, please. Le Pen is not "far-right". She's just a populist conservative, which apparently equals "neo-Nazi" to some. She kicked all the extremists out of her party (including her father) and made it much more mainstream, including changing the name.

Well she changed the name anyway.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Although I wouldn't say it's surprising. Circa WWI nationalism was at its height. The Soviet Union which rose near the end of the war stifled the nationalism of the countries it took over. Others continued rolling until WWII. The end of the war, the fallout, the Cold War etc stifled much of the nationalism in Europe and for a time (decades) there was an attempt at multiculturalism. But this in many respects has failed, particularly with the Muslim immigrants, but not limited to them. It seems that many in Europe are tired of multiculturalism and wish to see a return to the glory days of their countries, as independent, individual nations, each with its own unique culture and ethnicity.

I don't know that multiculturalism has failed in Europe; it has had its downsides (e.g., the isolated immigrant neighborhoods with high crime rates in some countries) but also many benefits for countries that are doing quite well overall (such as Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands).

Zealous nationalism has always proven itself a disastrous influence on Europe and pretty much everywhere else in the long term. Whatever benefits it has could be had without the downsides that extreme nationalism always brings to the table.

 

[England my lionheart]

Although I wouldn't say it's surprising. Circa WWI nationalism was at its height. The Soviet Union which rose near the end of the war stifled the nationalism of the countries it took over. Others continued rolling until WWII. The end of the war, the fallout, the Cold War etc stifled much of the nationalism in Europe and for a time (decades) there was an attempt at multiculturalism. But this in many respects has failed, particularly with the Muslim immigrants, but not limited to them. It seems that many in Europe are tired of multiculturalism and wish to see a return to the glory days of their countries, as independent, individual nations, each with its own unique culture and ethnicity.

I agree,there is certainly discontent with multiculturalism,it’s not like it was done gradually it was just all at once,Merkel made some bad choices IMO but the EU too,it was a disaster in the making as soon as “free movement “ was made available imo.

 

[England my lionheart]

The third candidate with 20% is far left. His votere are not going to vote for le pen.

Le Pen reached the second round last time with less than 3% of the vote between her and Macron.

As to a right wing swing, it's happening world wide.

Thats true about his 20% but he didn’t say vote Macron instead.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I agree,there is certainly discontent with multiculturalism,it’s not like it was done gradually it was just all at once,Merkel made some bad choices IMO but the EU too,it was a disaster in the making as soon as “free movement “ was made available imo.

The idea that people will necessarily integrate well into a completely different culture when you allow mass immigration is as naive as it is dangerous. It is an undeniable fact that European and Arab (and Islamic) cultures are profoundly different. Expecting this to have no detrimental effects when allowing immigration en masse is just wishful thinking.

 

[ChristineM]

Thats true about his 20% but he didn’t say vote Macron instead.

The choice is macron, le pen or don't vote. Assume his voters want to vote they are far more likely to vote macron as closer to their views than le pen

 

[England my lionheart]

The idea that people will necessarily integrate well into a completely different culture when you allow mass immigration is as naive as it is dangerous. It is an undeniable fact that European and Arab (and Islamic) cultures are profoundly different. Expecting this to have no detrimental effects when allowing immigration en masse is just wishful thinking.

Exactly,I have seen it in France and here in England and totally wishful thinking.

 

[Harel13]

I don't know that multiculturalism has failed in Europe; it has had its downsides (e.g., the isolated immigrant neighborhoods with high crime rates in some countries) but also many benefits for countries that are doing quite well overall (such as Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands).

Zealous nationalism has always proven itself a disastrous influence on Europe and pretty much everywhere else in the long term. Whatever benefits it has could be had without the downsides that extreme nationalism always brings to the table.

Not every nationalism is "zealous" or "extreme", but certainly it is noticeable that many Europeans are tired of having multiculturalism stuffed down their throats. They want their old identities back. And yes, nationalism existed before the 19th century. The "old identities" go back farther than that. Some Europeans are able to combat multiculturalism in more peaceful ways (e.g. Brexit), while yes, others may turn to more violent means. And like it or not, I think it's understandable. It's a battle for identity and for history. Just look at the Ukraine v. Russia War - a battle for history, identity and more importantly, narrative. Turns out money isn't everything.

 

[England my lionheart]

The choice is macron, le pen or don't vote. Assume his voters want to vote they are far more likely to vote macron as closer to their views than le pen

Well I truly hope so.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Pity the poor French; a choice between Napoleon, and Hitler's granddaughter...

 

[Debater Slayer]

Not every nationalism is "zealous" or "extreme", but certainly it is noticeable that many Europeans are tired of having multiculturalism stuffed down their throats. They want their old identities back. And yes, nationalism existed before the 19th century. The "old identities" go back farther than that. Some Europeans are able to combat multiculturalism in more peaceful ways (e.g. Brexit), while yes, others may turn to more violent means. And like it or not, I think it's understandable. It's a battle for identity and for history. Just look at the Ukraine v. Russia War - a battle for history, identity and more importantly, narrative. Turns out money isn't everything.

In this case, Le Pen's blanket opposition to immigration, even the legal variety, seems to me an extreme form of nationalism. There's a fine line between preserving a country's identity and descending into fearmongering and chauvinism.

I firmly support Europe's right to preserve its cultural identity, and I think it's dangerous to allow immigration without thorough checks and limits on numbers of immigrants. But Le Pen goes way further than that.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Exactly,I have seen it in France and here in England and totally wishful thinking.

The situation with ethnic gangs in England is just a pitiful circus. I have British and even Arab friends living in England who have also told me that they completely stay away from certain neighborhoods. I don't know how or why the U.K. has allowed religious separatism and extremism to reach that point on its soil.

 

[Harel13]

In this case, Le Pen's blanket opposition to immigration, even the legal variety, seems to me an extreme form of nationalism. There's a fine line between preserving a country's identity and descending into fearmongering and chauvinism.

From her perspective, it's probably a necessary -- something (I wouldn't call it evil. Immigration isn't a right, it's perhaps a perk or some other word that escapes me at the moment) -- for the time being, to reorganize the entire national mainframe. When things are in order, perhaps some immigration will be allowed, but perhaps not. Again, no one has a right to immigrate anywhere, so long as this isn't a One World Order. I don't see any fearmongering or chauvinism here.

I firmly support Europe's right to preserve its cultural identity

Do you? Doesn't seem so, considering the wording you use every time these subjects come up, regarding any country anywhere.