the present moment

[ajay0]

'tathā śarīrāṇi vihāya jīrṇāny, anyāni saḿyāti navāni dehī'. BG 2.22
To me Krishna say: '(the old form) similarly accepts new material forms, giving up the old and useless ones'.

Dehi - body/form, not necessarily of an animate being but also of a stone. That too is a form. The stone also has a 'śarīra'. Forms change.

Krishna says to Arjuna in the Gita that though He and Arjuna had lived many lives, Arjuna remembers none of them whereas Krishna remembers all of them.

So if Krishna had been born in many past lives , are you saying that he had been born as inanimate matter like stones and mountains, and remembers all of that!

When Dr. Brian Weiss and Dr. Michael Newton regressed many patients to their past lives, as explained in case studies in their books, they found that all were human beings, not stones or mountains. Not even one life they remembered to be a stone or pebble.

I know my own past lives, and I was certainly not a pebble or stone as well.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, Arjuna did not understand in the beginning. All forms are Brahman only, even a stone. You were not a stone but in future what constitute you will be a part of stones (our bones will crumble into Calcium carbonate and form chalk in the sediments of Mother Ganga. After metamorphosis, they may come out as marble or granite). What constitutes us lives many lives and is never destroyed. The problem is that because of your belief in pseudo-science (Dr. Weiss and Dr. Newton), you do not understand the real meaning of what Lord Kishna said.

ps - And then sometimes we put rock-salt in things that we eat. It goes into our blood and becomes a part of us. The ,ine between living and non-living is arbitrary.

 

[ajay0]

Yeah, Arjuna did not understand in the beginning. All forms are Brahman only, even a stone.

But you neglected the part of how Krishna can remember that he was a 'stone' in a past life while Arjuna cannot !

You were not a stone but in future what constitute you will be a part of stones (our bones will crumble into Calcium carbonate and form chalk in the sediments of Mother Ganga. After metamorphosis, they may come out as marble or granite). What constitutes us lives many lives and is never destroyed. .

By why should Krishna remember that he had been calcium carbonate in a past life and what relevance is there in this.

For example visualize Krishna's living body and lifeless body without consciousness. Which would you prefer, the alive one or the lifeless one !

The problem is that because of your belief in pseudo-science (Dr. Weiss and Dr. Newton), you do not understand the real meaning of what Lord Kishna said.

Dr. Brian Weiss is a well-established western psychiatrist, academically well qualified and one with considerable work experience and impeccable credentials. How can you claim that he is a pseudo-scientist without any idea of his background !

Dr. Weiss had for long procrastinated on writing his books on reincarnation, due to fear of potential damage to his professional career which had been flourishing till then. He eventually decided to do it, in his own words, while having a shower, for the sake of his conscience.

Initially he rented a van to distribute his books and was driven by the feeling that even if one person could benefit from his books, he would be content.

His first book, 'Many lives, many masters', became a bestseller and due to popular reception, he has released more such books with case studies of patients who had undergone past life regression, which brought forth hitherto unknown psychological insights.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But you neglected the part of how Krishna can remember that he was a 'stone' in a past life while Arjuna cannot !
By why should Krishna remember that he had been calcium carbonate in a past life and what relevance is there in this.
For example visualize Krishna's living body and lifeless body without consciousness. Which would you prefer, the alive one or the lifeless one !
Dr. Brian Weiss is a

Krishna knows everything. He is Brahman.
Yeah, Calcium Carbonate too, as all other things in the universe, is Krishna. There is nothing other than Krishna in the Universe. The universe is only an extension of Lord Krishna. 'Advaita' does not subscribe to multiplicity.
No question of a distinction in Advaita, living or non-living (at least according to my view. Making any distinction will be against 'advaita').
What Dr.Weiss is, is immaterial to me. I do not subscribe to pseudo-science.

 

[ajay0]

Krishna knows everything. He is Brahman.
Yeah, Calcium Carbonate too, as all other things in the universe, is Krishna. There is nothing other than Krishna in the Universe. The universe is only an extension of Lord Krishna. 'Advaita' does not subscribe to multiplicity.
No question of a distinction in Advaita, living or non-living (at least according to my view. Making any distinction will be against 'advaita').
What Dr.Weiss is, is immaterial to me. I do not subscribe to pseudo-science.

But you said earlier that Brahman is electrical energy and matter as well, and then you say that Brahman is Krishna and Krishna knows everything.

How does Brahman- Krishna which is electrical energy and matter as per you, know everything ! Does it have the nervous system of a sentient being to know everything !

What Dr.Weiss is, is immaterial to me. I do not subscribe to pseudo-science.

When a well-qualified western doctor and researcher mentions something groundbreaking and which already has a source in the dharmic religions, it is considered pseudo-science by someone terming himself a hindu in the vedanta forum.

How's that for irony !

 

[Aupmanyav]

But you said earlier that Brahman is electrical energy and matter as well, and then you say that Brahman is Krishna and Krishna knows everything.
How does Brahman- Krishna which is electrical energy and matter as per you, know everything ! Does it have the nervous system of a sentient being to know everything !

What is the difference between energy, material, Brahman and Krishna? Does Brahman need to know anything? What would Brahman do by knowing? Is it not uninvolved? You think it needs to know and act?

When a well-qualified western doctor and researcher mentions something groundbreaking and which already has a source in the dharmic religions, it is considered pseudo-science by someone terming himself a hindu in the vedanta forum. How's that for irony !

No irony. Dr. Weiss should throw his degree in a dustbin. He has not learnt anything. A person of science believing in and propagating pseudo-science, what the heck? Just its presence is enough. Its presence creates maya which makes us perceive all actions.

 

[ajay0]

Dr. Weiss should throw his degree in a dustbin.

He has had many years of medical practice and does not need to flaunt his Yale medical degree to all.

He has not learnt anything.

I would say that is presumptous.

A person of science believing in and propagating pseudo-science, what the heck. act?

Then why hold on to hinduism which holds reincarnation as its central tenet as well. Throw it in the dustbin as well, right.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Then why hold on to hinduism which holds reincarnation as its central tenet as well. Throw it in the dustbin as well, right.

'Sarvam khalvidam Brahma'. If I am Brahman, will I be born? Will I die? If I am Brahman, will I ever undergo a change? What re-incarnation are you talking about? Brahman is deep, Ajay0. You need to understand, not argue.

 

[ajay0]

Brahman is deep, Ajay0. You need to understand, not argue.

Numerous other posters in this and other forums are also stating the same to you, 'You need to understand, not argue. '

Personal interpretation of Brahman out of beliefs and assumptions without direct perception is bound to result in misunderstandings and delusions.

Experiential understanding is the key to ending of delusion.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Would you say that the present moment is non-dual?? the really really present moment before thinking happens?

No. Without thought, there is no present moment. Without thought, there is nothing.

Non--dual is only conceptual. In reality, there is always a seer and the seen.

 

[Valjean]

No. Without thought, there is no present moment. Without thought, there is nothing.

Non--dual is only conceptual. In reality, there is always a seer and the seen.

Dual is only conceptual; an illusion, an artifact of of our waking-state dream. In objective reality there is unity.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Dual is only conceptual; an illusion, an artifact of of our waking-state dream. In objective reality there is unity.

You have no way of experiencing this unity. So long as there is an experience, there has to be an experiencer and therefore, it is not non-dual.

That is why I say non-dual is only a concept.

 

[Valjean]

You have no way of experiencing this unity. So long as there is an experience, there has to be an experiencer and therefore, it is not non-dual.

That is why I say non-dual is only a concept.

But isn't the whole goal of many of the "Eastern" religions -- and particularly Vedanta -- to achieve this experience of unity? What else are yogas for?

 

[Aupmanyav]

You have no way of experiencing this unity. So long as there is an experience, there has to be an experiencer and therefore, it is not non-dual.
That is why I say non-dual is only a concept.

But isn't the whole goal of many of the "Eastern" religions - and particularly Vedanta - to achieve this experience of unity? What else are yogas for?

If we understand what Shiva has said, then that is the most that can be achieved in life - understanding that unity is always there but it is non-experiential.

 

[Valjean]

Shiva is the destroyer of maya. He's the revealer of Unity.

Experiencer and experience, actor and action, are the same:
"Brahman is the act of offering
Brahman is the oblation poured by
Brahman into the fire that is Brahman"
Gita, IV:24

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, it is a matter of understanding - 'jnana'.

'brahmārpaṇaḿ brahma havir, brahmāgnau brahmaṇā hutam'
brahmaiva tena gantavyaḿ, brahma-karma-samādhinā." BG 4.24

The act of offering is Brahman. The oblation is Brahman. By Brahman it is offered into the Fire which too is Brahman.
 Brahman is That which is desired to be attained by him who performs all actions dedicating them to Brahman. (Aup's translation)

 

[Valjean]

I bow to your understanding of Sanskrit.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Oh, don't. I have a very rudimentary knowledge of Sanskrit. I just manage.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

But isn't the whole goal of many of the "Eastern" religions -- and particularly Vedanta -- to achieve this experience of unity?

How can non-dual unity be an experience? Who is the experiencer?

In the non-dual paradigm, only Brahman exists and in this case, is Brahman the experiencer? If so, Brahman is experiencing unity with what/whom?

If by unity, you mean, simultaneous duality and non-duality, then that would not qualify as non-dual.

I am not sure what you mean by Yoga, but the Yoga school (darshana) does not have unity as its goal. Going further, very few Indian darshanas (including the various flavors of Vedanta) aim for some kind of Unity.

 

[ajay0]

Female Enlightened master Nirmala Devi on the present moment....



"We are thinking all the time about the future and the past. One thought rises, falls off, another thought rises, falls off. So we are jumping on the cusp of future and past. But in between those thoughts there’s a little space that is the present. The past is finished and the future doesn’t exist. So what exists really? Reality is present. So when you stand in the present, you become thoughtlessly aware. And this state is the first state you achieve, and this is the state where you become absolutely peaceful within yourself. The peace is so great that you enjoy your peaceful existence. Not only that, but you become the source of peace. Wherever you go, you emit peace."


"The human mind is always bombarded with thoughts. It builds the ego and it reacts with it. Those who are conditioned are frightened people. These thoughts come from the past or from the future, but reality is in the present where we achieve peace. The mind creates all the problems for an individual or for the collective. One has to go beyond the mind into thoughtless awareness, where there is peace."