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The Prehistory of Belief

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
The only belief that seems reasonable is that of a single Deity. The rest is debatable.

In trying to understand how belief systems formed, and IF there is a right one is my preoccupation. Presently, it "seems" that Egypt had beliefs dating back about 5,000 years. I was just reading about early Pharaoh Akhenaten of that era that taught worshipping a single God.

I'll be looking into any Persian beliefs of that time.

I think that most anthropologists think that civilizations in China predated all the above?

This is not an attack on any single deity belief system. Those who think about NO God, or more than ONE God, I do not plan to study. Perhaps one day we will be able to more closely match up known Archeological ruins to form a known historical commentary?

I do have a preconceived hope to be able to show that the God of Abraham was known and appeared here much before recorded History.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The only belief that seems reasonable is that of a single Deity. The rest is debatable.

In trying to understand how belief systems formed, and IF there is a right one is my preoccupation. Presently, it "seems" that Egypt had beliefs dating back about 5,000 years. I was just reading about early Pharaoh Akhenaten of that era that taught worshipping a single God.

I'll be looking into any Persian beliefs of that time.

I think that most anthropologists think that civilizations in China predated all the above?

This is not an attack on any single deity belief system. Those who think about NO God, or more than ONE God, I do not plan to study. Perhaps one day we will be able to more closely match up known Archeological ruins to form a known historical commentary?

I do have a preconceived hope to be able to show that the God of Abraham was known and appeared here much before recorded History.

I don't think you will. Unless the Jews started off monotheistic (which they would know) but European gods more pronounced in the NT, I highly doubt it. You have other countries outside Europe that believe in one god. Maybe be more specific?
 

Baladas

An Págánach
I absolutely adore history - especially ancient history!

The only belief that seems reasonable is that of a single Deity. The rest is debatable.

Why is that?

I was just reading about early Pharaoh Akhenaten of that era that taught worshipping a single God.

Yes, Akhenaten promoted the worship of Aten exclusively. It's not possible to know how much personal conviction had to do with this, but it is known that he was already in a power struggle with the priests of Amun at who were centered at Karnak. It seems likely that he wanted to weaken their power and influence.

I'll be looking into any Persian beliefs of that time.
Zoroastrianism is what you will want to be starting with here. It is a very ancient monotheistic faith that I have a great deal of respect for.

I think that most anthropologists think that civilizations in China predated all the above?

No, Egyptian settlement predates Chinese settlement as far as I know. Both are extremely ancient, however.

This is not an attack on any single deity belief system. Those who think about NO God, or more than ONE God, I do not plan to study.

Why must it be an attack on any belief system? I used to be a monotheist too and I no longer am.
I don't look down on your monotheism, and I respect your right to your respective take on theism. We can disagree without actually attacking each other.

Peace
 
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Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
I don't think you will. Unless the Jews started off monotheistic (which they would know) but European gods more pronounced in the NT, I highly doubt it. You have other countries outside Europe that believe in one god. Maybe be more specific?

I am talking about religious prehistory, likely 5,000 years ago.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
I absolutely adore history - especially ancient history!



Why is that?



Yes, Akhenaten promoted the worship of Aten exclusively. It's not possible to know how much personal conviction had to do with this, but it is known that he was already in a power struggle with the priests of Amun at who were centered at Karnak. It seems likely that he wanted to weaken their power and influence.


Zoroastrianism is what you will want to be starting with here. It is a very ancient faith that I have a great deal of respect for.



No, Egyptian settlement predates Chinese settlement as far as I know. Both are extremely ancient, however.



Why must it be an attack on any belief system? I used to be a monotheist too and I no longer am.
I don't look down on your monotheism, and I respect your right to your respective take on theism. We can disagree without actually attacking each other.

Peace

:) Please don't yell at me? I'm nursing the strong suspicion that the Creator of what we know of is a scientist, and has laboriously brought Homo Sapiens along to present day. In the unlikely event that we don't soon destroy ourselves, perhaps one day we will meet this Creator and those with him. The Bible and most religious documents are a primitives understanding of History.
 

Baladas

An Págánach
:) Please don't yell at me? I'm nursing the strong suspicion that the Creator of what we know of is a scientist, and has laboriously brought Homo Sapiens along to present day. In the unlikely event that we don't soon destroy ourselves, perhaps one day we will meet this Creator and those with him. The Bible and most religious documents are a primitives understanding of History.

I'm definitely not yelling - I'm sorry if I came across as hostile in any way. :)

I absolutely love discussing ancient history, and I got excited that someone was talking about it outside of the context of ancient Israel (though I do love that topic as well). That's why I used an exclamation point.

I agree with you that ancient scriptures are mainly the attempts of our ancestors attempting to understand something beyond themselves.

I really do encourage you to look into Zoroastrianism if you are interested in ancient Persian religion, as that was their faith (and it still lives on today, though it has been severely oppressed over the millennia).
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The only belief that seems reasonable is that of a single Deity. The rest is debatable.

In trying to understand how belief systems formed, and IF there is a right one is my preoccupation. Presently, it "seems" that Egypt had beliefs dating back about 5,000 years. I was just reading about early Pharaoh Akhenaten of that era that taught worshipping a single God.

I'll be looking into any Persian beliefs of that time.

I think that most anthropologists think that civilizations in China predated all the above?

This is not an attack on any single deity belief system. Those who think about NO God, or more than ONE God, I do not plan to study. Perhaps one day we will be able to more closely match up known Archeological ruins to form a known historical commentary?

I do have a preconceived hope to be able to show that the God of Abraham was known and appeared here much before recorded History.

Before writing nature and god coexisted. Thats alluded to in pre literate understanding and expression. After writing then words take on definitions and then they are objects in context to other objects. But actually seeing nature like pre literates? hahaha extremely difficult.

We have a smart disorder! A terrible communicable disease. I have to spend excessive time in issolation hiking spending time in the forests the more remote wilder places. Lol.
As joh muir said "off to the forest i go to lose my mind and find my soul." preliterate people understood this.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
For a pre-history study on beliefs I would recommend Blood Rites by Barbara Ehrenreich

the following is a copy and paste from amazon:

BLOOD RITES, Barbara Ehrenreich confronts the mystery of the human attraction to violence: What draws our species to war and even makes us see it as a kind of sacred undertaking? BLOOD RITES takes us on an original journey from the elaborate human sacrifices of the ancient world to the carnage and holocaust of twentieth-century "total war." Sifting through the fragile records of prehistory, Ehrenreich discovers the wellspring of war in an unexpected place--not in a "killer instinct" unique to the males of our species but in the blood rites early humans performed to reenact their terrifying experience of predation by stronger carnivores. Brilliant in conception, rich in scope, Blood Rites is a monumental work that will transform our understanding of the greatest single threat to human life.

Review
"Keen and arresting...One of today's most original writers has tackled one of humankind's most intractable subjects."―New York Times Book Review

"Original and illuminating. It is a large step from the all-male hunting band to the U.S. Marine Corps. Barbara Ehrenreich plots the path, nevertheless, both passionately and persuasively."―Washington Post

"Splendid...A fascinating perspective on our staunch devotion to mass, mutual slaughter. BLOOD RITES is that rare animal, a non-fiction page-turner."―Newsweek

"Exceptionally wide-ranging, BLOOD RITES is brilliant, persuasive, and thoroughly accessible."―The Philadelphia Inquirer

About the Author


BARBARA EHRENREICH is the author of fourteen books, including the bestselling Nickel and Dimed and Bait and Switch. She lives in Virginia.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
I'm definitely not yelling - I'm sorry if I came across as hostile in any way. :)

I absolutely love discussing ancient history, and I got excited that someone was talking about it outside of the context of ancient Israel (though I do love that topic as well). That's why I used an exclamation point.

I agree with you that ancient scriptures are mainly the attempts of our ancestors attempting to understand something beyond themselves.

I really do encourage you to look into Zoroastrianism if you are interested in ancient Persian religion, as that was their faith (and it still lives on today, though it has been severely oppressed over the millennia).

Thank you. I've had a rather casual look at Zoroastrianism. I actually found some Zoroastrians not far from where I live, but have not approached them. I think their diety Ahura Mazda is their single God. He and some specimens in South America seem to be clad similarly.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Before writing nature and god coexisted. Thats alluded to in pre literate understanding and expression. After writing then words take on definitions and then they are objects in context to other objects. But actually seeing nature like pre literates? hahaha extremely difficult.

We have a smart disorder! A terrible communicable disease. I have to spend excessive time in issolation hiking spending time in the forests the more remote wilder places. Lol.
As joh muir said "off to the forest i go to lose my mind and find my soul." preliterate people understood this.

Perhaps this ruction simply has egotism as its origin?
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Thank you. I've had a rather casual look at Zoroastrianism. I actually found some Zoroastrians not far from where I live, but have not approached them. I think their diety Ahura Mazda is their single God. He and some specimens in South America seem to be clad similarly.

I did find a Zoroastrian web site and signed up to follow it. :)
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
For a pre-history study on beliefs I would recommend Blood Rites by Barbara Ehrenreich

the following is a copy and paste from amazon:

BLOOD RITES, Barbara Ehrenreich confronts the mystery of the human attraction to violence: What draws our species to war and even makes us see it as a kind of sacred undertaking? BLOOD RITES takes us on an original journey from the elaborate human sacrifices of the ancient world to the carnage and holocaust of twentieth-century "total war." Sifting through the fragile records of prehistory, Ehrenreich discovers the wellspring of war in an unexpected place--not in a "killer instinct" unique to the males of our species but in the blood rites early humans performed to reenact their terrifying experience of predation by stronger carnivores. Brilliant in conception, rich in scope, Blood Rites is a monumental work that will transform our understanding of the greatest single threat to human life.

Review
"Keen and arresting...One of today's most original writers has tackled one of humankind's most intractable subjects."―New York Times Book Review

"Original and illuminating. It is a large step from the all-male hunting band to the U.S. Marine Corps. Barbara Ehrenreich plots the path, nevertheless, both passionately and persuasively."―Washington Post

"Splendid...A fascinating perspective on our staunch devotion to mass, mutual slaughter. BLOOD RITES is that rare animal, a non-fiction page-turner."―Newsweek

"Exceptionally wide-ranging, BLOOD RITES is brilliant, persuasive, and thoroughly accessible."―The Philadelphia Inquirer

About the Author


BARBARA EHRENREICH is the author of fourteen books, including the bestselling Nickel and Dimed and Bait and Switch. She lives in Virginia.


Not sure I'm interested in her side of things.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
Not sure I'm interested in her side of things.
That's understandable, I only recommended it because she attempts to research the origins of religion and it's quite a read. Unfortunately violence goes a long way to explain religion, it's just the way it is.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
That's understandable, I only recommended it because she attempts to research the origins of religion and it's quite a read. Unfortunately violence goes a long way to explain religion, it's just the way it is.

I can't argue with that supposition. Living is really frightening at times, even now. The basic reaction to fear is lashing out in defense. Homo Sapiens is also the best predator ever to live. We see, we want, we take. I hope that in his work, God is taking steps to help us to be less brutal.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
funny how power works, isnt it? And writing can give a sense of power.

Perhaps writing helps one to put more thought into what is said? I've had the experience, when writing that sometimes the words do not seem to be mine, or what I usually write; a different "voice" perhaps? I wonder who would give the best answer for a reason for this. Certainly not a Psychologist, but perhaps a writing teacher?
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The only belief that seems reasonable is that of a single Deity. The rest is debatable.

In trying to understand how belief systems formed, and IF there is a right one is my preoccupation. Presently, it "seems" that Egypt had beliefs dating back about 5,000 years. I was just reading about early Pharaoh Akhenaten of that era that taught worshipping a single God.

I'll be looking into any Persian beliefs of that time.

I think that most anthropologists think that civilizations in China predated all the above?

This is not an attack on any single deity belief system. Those who think about NO God, or more than ONE God, I do not plan to study. Perhaps one day we will be able to more closely match up known Archeological ruins to form a known historical commentary?

I do have a preconceived hope to be able to show that the God of Abraham was known and appeared here much before recorded History.
Judaism is split in its writings (and thus in the opinions of our scholars) as to whether monotheism with symbols, such as the sun worship during the time of Akhenaten, is avodah zarah (idolatry) or shi*tuf (an impure monotheism). I go with the shi*tuf crowd, which I learned while I attended Chabad. While such monotheisms are not appropriate for Jews, because of our covenant, it is acceptable for non-Jews. That's why I have no problem i.e. with Christians.
 
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