Thanda
Well-Known Member
Hi All. It's been a minute. Hope you're all doing well
So the last few years I have been less active from the Church. That time has given me an opportunity explore and deliberate on the spiritual questions without being completely constrained by Mormon dogma.
Now let me add that the Plan of Salvation, especially the dotrine of the pre-existance and the various degrees and kingdom of glories, as taught in the Church still represents to me the most logical view of our place in the universe, our origins and our destiny.
My issue is around the middle portion of the plan - our life on earth. The question I considered was how a just God could base our eternal destiny on a single life. Especially given that the length of people's lives varies so much, from still borns, to those who die at 4, 10, 15, 25, 50, 70 or 100.
With this huge disparaty in the time granted to us on earth how certain can we be that every life is sufficient time for a person to make an informed decision about their eternal destiny?
Furthermore, according the Mormon doctrine, the reason we came here on earth was because we needed our bodies in order to be properly tried and tested and in order to learn and grow so that we can become like our Father in Heaven. If so, then clearly our ability to be tried and tested, to learn and to grow is unique to this second estate. So while the mormon doctrine teaches that the spirit world is some sort of fail safe where any issues in this life will be resolved before judgement, I can't help wonder how people in the spirit would be able to be tried and tested (assuming their life on earth wasn't enough) to the same extent in the spirit world, as they would be on earth with bodies.
Because the conundrum is that if it is possible to be equally tried and tested, and to progress in the spirit world as it is on earth, then why would we need an earth life in the first place?
So having looked at these issues in the theology I began to wonder whether reincarnation was not the missing piece.
In Abraham 3:24 to 26 we have the following:
Two things stand out to me
So this rules out there being some other place where we can be tried and tested. It is on earth, with our bodies, that we must prove to God that we are willing to do "all things whatsoever he shall commands us". Or as the Lectures on Faith (6:5) put it
So I conclude that if earth is the place for us to prepare ourselves for the final judgement and God is a fair God, then reincarnation makes sense as a part of that process to ensure that each of us have ample opportunity to decide our eternal destiny.
What do you guys think?
So the last few years I have been less active from the Church. That time has given me an opportunity explore and deliberate on the spiritual questions without being completely constrained by Mormon dogma.
Now let me add that the Plan of Salvation, especially the dotrine of the pre-existance and the various degrees and kingdom of glories, as taught in the Church still represents to me the most logical view of our place in the universe, our origins and our destiny.
My issue is around the middle portion of the plan - our life on earth. The question I considered was how a just God could base our eternal destiny on a single life. Especially given that the length of people's lives varies so much, from still borns, to those who die at 4, 10, 15, 25, 50, 70 or 100.
With this huge disparaty in the time granted to us on earth how certain can we be that every life is sufficient time for a person to make an informed decision about their eternal destiny?
Furthermore, according the Mormon doctrine, the reason we came here on earth was because we needed our bodies in order to be properly tried and tested and in order to learn and grow so that we can become like our Father in Heaven. If so, then clearly our ability to be tried and tested, to learn and to grow is unique to this second estate. So while the mormon doctrine teaches that the spirit world is some sort of fail safe where any issues in this life will be resolved before judgement, I can't help wonder how people in the spirit would be able to be tried and tested (assuming their life on earth wasn't enough) to the same extent in the spirit world, as they would be on earth with bodies.
Because the conundrum is that if it is possible to be equally tried and tested, and to progress in the spirit world as it is on earth, then why would we need an earth life in the first place?
So having looked at these issues in the theology I began to wonder whether reincarnation was not the missing piece.
In Abraham 3:24 to 26 we have the following:
"24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever."
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever."
Two things stand out to me
- Our second estate (our time on earth) will be used to determine our eternal destiny.
- The test to determine if we have been successful in our second estate is if can prove that we will do EVERYTHING the Lord commands us.
So this rules out there being some other place where we can be tried and tested. It is on earth, with our bodies, that we must prove to God that we are willing to do "all things whatsoever he shall commands us". Or as the Lectures on Faith (6:5) put it
"Let us here observe, that a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation; for, from the first existence of man, the faith necessary unto the enjoyment of life and salvation never could be obtained without the sacrifice of all earthly things. It was through this sacrifice, and this only, that God has ordained that men should enjoy eternal life; and it is through the medium of the sacrifice of all earthly things that men do actually know that they are doing the things that are well pleasing in the sight of God. When a man has offered in sacrifice all that he has for the truth's sake, not even withholding his life, and believing before God that he has been called to make this sacrifice because he seeks to do his will, he does know, most assuredly, that God does and will accept his sacrifice and offering, and that he has not, nor will not seek his face in vain. Under these circumstances, then, he can obtain the faith necessary for him to lay hold on eternal life."
Note the reference to all EARTHLY things. There are no earthly things in the spirit world.
So I conclude that if earth is the place for us to prepare ourselves for the final judgement and God is a fair God, then reincarnation makes sense as a part of that process to ensure that each of us have ample opportunity to decide our eternal destiny.
What do you guys think?