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The poor in America are screwed everywhere they go.

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
In all 50 states and in every city, so it seems.

The compromises:

In cheap states/cities mostly in Red/Republican as in my current Lawton, Oklahoma:

the pros: cheap rent albeit crappy housing quality, cheap vehicle registration, pro-gun, pro-hunting

the cons: death penalty and heavy use of it, poor weather conditions, boring, bible-thumpers, roads and streets in poor repair, limited employment opportunities, poor education system, limited welfare/social services/health care/dental care, ignorant people, lack of education, racism, homophobia, high grocery taxes, limited consumer choice as in shopping/supermarkets


In expensive states/cities mostly in Blue/Democrat as my former California:

the pros: beautiful natural scenery, more favorable weather conditions, better welfare/social services/healthcare/dental care, better grocery shopping quality, not-so-boring culture, better-maintained roads, better education, better employment opportunities, more educated people, more accepting of diverse sexual orientations

the cons: expensive rent, expensive real estate, anti-gun, anti-self-defense, higher crime rates in larger cities, more congestion, higher vehicle costs


These red states have mostly poor people ironically who tend to still vote Republican. They feel their gun rights and deer-hunting rights are more important than healthcare, quality affordable housing, quality nutrition and welfare benefits if they are poor and union-scale wages if they are working. I'm pro-gun but feel I have to sacrifice quality social services benefits to enjoy the right to lawful self-defense against thugs. I have to get a crappy moldy apartment in a dump like Oklahoma to afford to have no roommates.

I left Boise, ID this month and came to Lawton, OK for a 1 br $420 apartment and gain the freedom of being able to live roommate-free. I would not be able to live roommate free in Boise, ID or California on my meager VA pension disability benefit at $1,127/mo. Coming to Lawton, OK also puts me at lower elevation than Boise, ID so my asthma is less aggravated and the high humidity here frees my lungs up some. Dry air makes breathing more labored.

Except my cheap apartment smells moldy, Lawton is a slummish white-trash town and Oklahoma is full of nasty flash floods and tornadoes. The streets here are badlands with huge cracks and potholes. Not bike-friendly. No bike lanes in south-central Oklahoma like Boise, ID. No nice parks and river bikeways like Boise. Not a nice place to ride a bicycle. There are a bunch of stupid yankee-hating hicks with Southern drawls and trashy-looking people all around here. The poor people always get the crappy end of the stick anywhere and everywhere.

Pick your poison my fellow poor Americans: high rent sunny California, extreme gun-grabbing and still expensive New York or cheap-housing/expensive groceries dumb-redneck Oklahoma in tornado alley?
 
Last edited:

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
In cheap states/cities mostly in Red/Republican as in my current Lawton, Oklahoma:

the pros: cheap rent albeit crappy housing quality, cheap vehicle registration, pro-gun, pro-hunting

Sounds great, low government intervention, low taxes, more freedom, cheaper ok the wallet.

the cons: death penalty and heavy use of it, poor weather conditions, boring, bible-thumpers, roads and streets in poor repair, limited employment opportunities, poor education system, limited welfare/social services/health care/dental care, ignorant people, lack of education, racism, homophobia, high grocery taxes, limited consumer choice as in shopping/supermarkets

Death penalty not used enough. It's time we start throwing in pedos and rapist as well. As for the rest it just sounds like a typical rural area.

In expensive states/cities mostly in Blue/Democrat as my former California:

the pros: beautiful natural scenery, more favorable weather conditions, better welfare/social services/healthcare/dental care, better grocery shopping quality, not-so-boring culture, better-maintained roads, better education, better employment opportunities, more educated people, more accepting of diverse sexual orientations

Sounds like typical big city living. You pay for what you get. Everything is bigger and better but also insanely more expensive, as you pointed out.

the cons: expensive rent, expensive real estate, anti-gun, anti-self-defense, higher crime rates in larger cities, more congestion, higher vehicle costs

Taxes, taxes, taxes, lets not forget the 130,000 homeless people in Cali, and the 30,000 homeless on NY (both blue states). Many times much higher than red states. San Francisco is covered in human feces, L.A is littered with trash and used needles, people are fleeing the state due to these reasons in favor or red states.


It all depends on how you play the game. You just gotta be smart about it. I worked on my credit a bit, paid $1,000 down payment and bought a fully furnished (fridge, dishwasher, washer/dryer, microwave, stove) 2 bedroom home with a bonus room and a garage with 1/4 acre of land with a USDA loan.

House payment is $635 (that taxes/pmi/mortgage all in one) a month 5% fixed rate for 30 years. Much cheaper than renting an apartment. I make too much for govt subsidized apartments, which is 99% of everything apartments in my area. So if I wanted to rent an apartment here I'd have to pay $1,000-$1,500 a month for a 1 bedroom apt and have no privacy at all. Of course it's a rural area, but it's in an old part of town that's recently been updated so I can literally walk down to the pub, play poker, and watch a live band every night if I wanted to.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
In all 50 states and in every city, so it seems.

The compromises:

In cheap states/cities mostly in Red/Republican as in my current Lawton, Oklahoma:

the pros: cheap rent albeit crappy housing quality, cheap vehicle registration, pro-gun, pro-hunting

the cons: death penalty and heavy use of it, poor weather conditions, boring, bible-thumpers, roads and streets in poor repair, limited employment opportunities, poor education system, limited welfare/social services/health care/dental care, ignorant people, lack of education, racism, homophobia, high grocery taxes, limited consumer choice as in shopping/supermarkets


In expensive states/cities mostly in Blue/Democrat as my former California:

the pros: beautiful natural scenery, more favorable weather conditions, better welfare/social services/healthcare/dental care, better grocery shopping quality, not-so-boring culture, better-maintained roads, better education, better employment opportunities, more educated people, more accepting of diverse sexual orientations

the cons: expensive rent, expensive real estate, anti-gun, anti-self-defense, higher crime rates in larger cities, more congestion, higher vehicle costs


These red states have mostly poor people ironically who tend to still vote Republican. They feel their gun rights and deer-hunting rights are more important than healthcare, quality affordable housing, quality nutrition and welfare benefits if they are poor and union-scale wages if they are working. I'm pro-gun but feel I have to sacrifice quality social services benefits to enjoy the right to lawful self-defense against thugs. I have to get a crappy moldy apartment in a dump like Oklahoma to afford to have no roommates.

I left Boise, ID this month and came to Lawton, OK for a 1 br $420 apartment and gain the freedom of being able to live roommate-free. I would not be able to live roommate free in Boise, ID or California on my meager VA pension disability benefit at $1,127/mo. Coming to Lawton, OK also puts me at lower elevation than Boise, ID so my asthma is less aggravated and the high humidity here frees my lungs up some. Dry air makes breathing more labored.

Except my cheap apartment smells moldy, Lawton is a slummish white-trash town and Oklahoma is full of nasty flash floods and tornadoes. The streets here are badlands with huge cracks and potholes. Not bike-friendly. No bike lanes in south-central Oklahoma like Boise, ID. No nice parks and river bikeways like Boise. Not a nice place to ride a bicycle. There are a bunch of stupid yankee-hating hicks with Southern drawls and trashy-looking people all around here. The poor people always get the crappy end of the stick anywhere and everywhere.

Pick your poison my fellow poor Americans: high rent sunny California, extreme gun-grabbing and still expensive New York or cheap-housing/expensive groceries dumb-redneck Oklahoma in tornado alley?

Well, I agree with your thread title, that the poor are screwed no matter where they go.

One might also see some cultural differences between the regions commonly known as "the coasts" vs. "flyover country."

One thing I've observed is that people in flyover country tend to be far less pretentious, more real and down-to-earth than their coastal counterparts. They are mostly downhome, good-hearted people who don't care what kind of car you drive or whether your house isn't pretty or even if you have an old truck up on blocks in your front yard. They appreciate hard work, have close family ties, and tend to have a sense of loyalty to each other which is profoundly absent in the urban coastal regions.

In the coastal areas, they're more pretentious, false, and ultra-materialistic. They're no longer trying to keep up with the Joneses. They're now wanting to keep up with the Kardashians. And they have such scorn and ridicule for working people it isn't funny. I recall some anecdotes from a pizza guy who delivered in some of the rich and cranky neighborhoods of New York, where rude attitudes and doors slammed in his face were a common occurrence. They seem to think that working people are just dirt under their feet, whereas they tend to appreciate hard work a bit more in the flyover regions.

"Show business kids making movies of themselves, you know they don't give a f*** about anybody else..."

Your typical limousine liberals on the coasts might pay lip service and say all the things other liberals want to hear. But their actions and attitudes give them away.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
In all 50 states and in every city, so it seems.

The compromises:

In cheap states/cities mostly in Red/Republican as in my current Lawton, Oklahoma:

the pros: cheap rent albeit crappy housing quality, cheap vehicle registration, pro-gun, pro-hunting

the cons: death penalty and heavy use of it, poor weather conditions, boring, bible-thumpers, roads and streets in poor repair, limited employment opportunities, poor education system, limited welfare/social services/health care/dental care, ignorant people, lack of education, racism, homophobia, high grocery taxes, limited consumer choice as in shopping/supermarkets


In expensive states/cities mostly in Blue/Democrat as my former California:

the pros: beautiful natural scenery, more favorable weather conditions, better welfare/social services/healthcare/dental care, better grocery shopping quality, not-so-boring culture, better-maintained roads, better education, better employment opportunities, more educated people, more accepting of diverse sexual orientations

the cons: expensive rent, expensive real estate, anti-gun, anti-self-defense, higher crime rates in larger cities, more congestion, higher vehicle costs


These red states have mostly poor people ironically who tend to still vote Republican. They feel their gun rights and deer-hunting rights are more important than healthcare, quality affordable housing, quality nutrition and welfare benefits if they are poor and union-scale wages if they are working. I'm pro-gun but feel I have to sacrifice quality social services benefits to enjoy the right to lawful self-defense against thugs. I have to get a crappy moldy apartment in a dump like Oklahoma to afford to have no roommates.

I left Boise, ID this month and came to Lawton, OK for a 1 br $420 apartment and gain the freedom of being able to live roommate-free. I would not be able to live roommate free in Boise, ID or California on my meager VA pension disability benefit at $1,127/mo. Coming to Lawton, OK also puts me at lower elevation than Boise, ID so my asthma is less aggravated and the high humidity here frees my lungs up some. Dry air makes breathing more labored.

Except my cheap apartment smells moldy, Lawton is a slummish white-trash town and Oklahoma is full of nasty flash floods and tornadoes. The streets here are badlands with huge cracks and potholes. Not bike-friendly. No bike lanes in south-central Oklahoma like Boise, ID. No nice parks and river bikeways like Boise. Not a nice place to ride a bicycle. There are a bunch of stupid yankee-hating hicks with Southern drawls and trashy-looking people all around here. The poor people always get the crappy end of the stick anywhere and everywhere.

Pick your poison my fellow poor Americans: high rent sunny California, extreme gun-grabbing and still expensive New York or cheap-housing/expensive groceries dumb-redneck Oklahoma in tornado alley?
just receive $2000 PG&E bill for two months did not do anything unusual. have to call them today. more the trippled rate. California.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
In all 50 states and in every city, so it seems.

The compromises:

In cheap states/cities mostly in Red/Republican as in my current Lawton, Oklahoma:

the pros: cheap rent albeit crappy housing quality, cheap vehicle registration, pro-gun, pro-hunting

the cons: death penalty and heavy use of it, poor weather conditions, boring, bible-thumpers, roads and streets in poor repair, limited employment opportunities, poor education system, limited welfare/social services/health care/dental care, ignorant people, lack of education, racism, homophobia, high grocery taxes, limited consumer choice as in shopping/supermarkets


In expensive states/cities mostly in Blue/Democrat as my former California:

the pros: beautiful natural scenery, more favorable weather conditions, better welfare/social services/healthcare/dental care, better grocery shopping quality, not-so-boring culture, better-maintained roads, better education, better employment opportunities, more educated people, more accepting of diverse sexual orientations

the cons: expensive rent, expensive real estate, anti-gun, anti-self-defense, higher crime rates in larger cities, more congestion, higher vehicle costs


These red states have mostly poor people ironically who tend to still vote Republican. They feel their gun rights and deer-hunting rights are more important than healthcare, quality affordable housing, quality nutrition and welfare benefits if they are poor and union-scale wages if they are working. I'm pro-gun but feel I have to sacrifice quality social services benefits to enjoy the right to lawful self-defense against thugs. I have to get a crappy moldy apartment in a dump like Oklahoma to afford to have no roommates.

I left Boise, ID this month and came to Lawton, OK for a 1 br $420 apartment and gain the freedom of being able to live roommate-free. I would not be able to live roommate free in Boise, ID or California on my meager VA pension disability benefit at $1,127/mo. Coming to Lawton, OK also puts me at lower elevation than Boise, ID so my asthma is less aggravated and the high humidity here frees my lungs up some. Dry air makes breathing more labored.

Except my cheap apartment smells moldy, Lawton is a slummish white-trash town and Oklahoma is full of nasty flash floods and tornadoes. The streets here are badlands with huge cracks and potholes. Not bike-friendly. No bike lanes in south-central Oklahoma like Boise, ID. No nice parks and river bikeways like Boise. Not a nice place to ride a bicycle. There are a bunch of stupid yankee-hating hicks with Southern drawls and trashy-looking people all around here. The poor people always get the crappy end of the stick anywhere and everywhere.

Pick your poison my fellow poor Americans: high rent sunny California, extreme gun-grabbing and still expensive New York or cheap-housing/expensive groceries dumb-redneck Oklahoma in tornado alley?

Yeah it's tough for the middle class in Calif, unless you work for the government and can be banking on a nice pension.

This beautiful state that we live in is the most prosperous in the nation, generating more income than most countries in the world. Yet it is on the verge of going broke under the weight of pension and retirement plans which no state or nation can afford.
Government Has Killed The Fatted Calf — Merced County Times
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Which countries have the worst income disparity is also not obvious from one's political assumptions.

These 15 countries have the widest gaps between rich and poor

South Africa is worst, followed by China, India, Costa Rica, Brazil, Mexico, Chile, Turkey, and with the USA in 9th place.

With a GDP per capita of $53,632 and an unemployment rate of 4.4%, the U.S. economy appears healthy. But the benefits of a strong economy are not evenly enjoyed by all Americans. Of the 325.1 million Americans, an estimated 17.8% live below the poverty line. U.S. taxes and transfers do a relatively poor job of leveling out the economic playing field. While most nations' Gini coefficients decline by more than 30% after taxes and transfers, the U.S. Gini coefficient declines by only about 23%.
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
Sounds great, low government intervention, low taxes, more freedom, cheaper ok the wallet.



Death penalty not used enough. It's time we start throwing in pedos and rapist as well. As for the rest it just sounds like a typical rural area.



Sounds like typical big city living. You pay for what you get. Everything is bigger and better but also insanely more expensive, as you pointed out.



Taxes, taxes, taxes, lets not forget the 130,000 homeless people in Cali, and the 30,000 homeless on NY (both blue states). Many times much higher than red states. San Francisco is covered in human feces, L.A is littered with trash and used needles, people are fleeing the state due to these reasons in favor or red states.


It all depends on how you play the game. You just gotta be smart about it. I worked on my credit a bit, paid $1,000 down payment and bought a fully furnished (fridge, dishwasher, washer/dryer, microwave, stove) 2 bedroom home with a bonus room and a garage with 1/4 acre of land with a USDA loan.

House payment is $635 (that taxes/pmi/mortgage all in one) a month 5% fixed rate for 30 years. Much cheaper than renting an apartment. I make too much for govt subsidized apartments, which is 99% of everything apartments in my area. So if I wanted to rent an apartment here I'd have to pay $1,000-$1,500 a month for a 1 bedroom apt and have no privacy at all. Of course it's a rural area, but it's in an old part of town that's recently been updated so I can literally walk down to the pub, play poker, and watch a live band every night if I wanted to.

Somebody below 138% of poverty level as I am could not handle that $635 house payment plus whatever utilities you have to pay on top of that.
In tornado-beaten hillbilly Oklahoma, I rent a moldy 1-br apartment for $420/mo. plus I have to pay the electric bill and internet on top of that. I chose no cable television as I can get all my news from the Net or free local broadcast radio. I've applied for the Lifeline Program for my Internet and for Energy Assistance for the power company under county welfare. It is hot and humid here and I have to run my portable A/C in my bedroom most of the time during the mid- spring-summer-mid fall seasons. I keep the main Motel-6-style a/c in the living room off as much as possible and spend most of my time in my bedroom. Those puny wall units in the living room don't throw out much cold air to the bedroom in the back anyway even with the door wide open. Much better to use my own a/c in my bedroom behind closed doors to carve out a cool spot. I get by with a fan while cooking in the kitchen or washing dishes.
 
Last edited:

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Somebody below 138% of poverty level as I am could not handle that $635 house payment plus whatever utilities you have to pay on top of that.
In tornado-beaten hillbilly Oklahoma, I rent a moldy 1-br apartment for $420/mo. plus I have to pay the electric bill and internet on top of that. I chose no cable television as I can get all my news from the Net or free local broadcast radio. I've applied for the Lifeline Program for my Internet and for Energy Assistance for the power company under county welfare. It is hot and humid here and I have to run my portable A/C in my bedroom most of the time during the mid- spring-summer-mid fall seasons. I keep the main Motel-6-style a/c in the living room off as much as possible and spend most of my time in my bedroom. Those puny wall units in the living room don't throw out much cold air to the bedroom in the back anyway even with the door wide open. Much better to use my own a/c in my bedroom behind closed doors to carve out a cool spot. I get by with a fan while cooking in the kitchen or washing dishes.

Sounds miserable as hell. Your VA disability pension is just too low. You need at least $2,000 (after taxes) a month to live a decent life. It's a shame out govt doesn't take better care of our military after they've been discharged. I'm so sorry.:(
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
Sounds miserable as hell. Your VA disability pension is just too low. You need at least $2,000 (after taxes) a month to live a decent life. It's a shame out govt doesn't take better care of our military after they've been discharged. I'm so sorry.:(

People on SSI often even get paid less than I do. I knew a vet with PTSD that only got $1,500 in expensive California. He claimed to be 50% service connected. He still sent some money every month to his children and he moved to New Mexico where he said he could get an apartment for about $400/month. I only pray I can get over my ailments so I can work for a living and make $50,000-$70,000 a year as a truck driver for a big national carrier and even buy me a new home in a place like Oklahoma City. Be my own landlord. Rent out rooms.
 
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