The politics of Jesus

[julianalexander745]

Like Trump? God, that's a horrible thought.

The Sermon on the Mount is very revealing of Jesus political beliefs. He was all for non violent liberation and shaming your oppressors.

Just like Trump.

 

[columbus]

Well, there's also a lot of evidence of Jesus chastising the Jewish proesthood... So I would say, Jesus had no problem speaking his mind from his own authority, exclusive from politics.

There is no evidence of that. It's just what people have told you to believe.
People beholden to the Romans.
Tom

 

[sooda]

Well, there's also a lot of evidence of Jesus chastising the Jewish proesthood... So I would say, Jesus had no problem speaking his mind from his own authority, exclusive from politics.

Some prophet or another chastises the Jewish people all the way thru the OT. Can you name a single prophet who didn't?

 

[sooda]

There is no evidence of that. It's just what people have told you to believe.
People beholden to the Romans.
Tom

Roman Rule (63BCE-313CE)

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/roman-rule-63bce-313ce
A last attempt to restore the former glory of the Hasmonean dynasty was made by Mattathias Antigonus, whose defeat and death brought Hasmonean rule to an end (40 BCE), and the Land became a province of the Roman Empire. In 37 BCE, Herod, a son-in-law of …

 

[columbus]

If we were to rely entirely on historical knowledge and analysis I agree. My position is largely Faith based that sees the Gospels under Divine Protection.

OK.
You believe things that are implausible and unevidenced.
You are religious.
There's nothing surprising, to me, about any of that.
Tom

 

[Cooky]

There is no evidence of that. It's just what people have told you to believe.
People beholden to the Romans.
Tom

Matthew 23:13-15

 

[Cooky]

Some prophet or another chastises the Jewish people all the way thru the OT. Can you name a single prophet who didn't?

I said priesthood, not "people". IOW, Jesus would have chastised both the Roman and Jewish leaders, indicating he spoke from his own authority... He was non-political.

 

[columbus]

Matthew 23:13-15

Tell me again.
Did Jesus write that? Or did someone say that Jesus meant that?

It's not at all the same.
Tom

 

[Cooky]

Tell me again.
Did Jesus write that? Or did someone say that Jesus meant that?

It's not at all the same.
Tom

I see what you're clinging to now... That the bible is total fiction.

...Under that premise, there really isn't much left to discuss. I mean that sincerely -that there's nothing we can agree or disagree on.

 

[sooda]

I said priesthood, not "people". IOW, Jesus would have chastised both the Roman and Jewish leaders, indicating he spoke from his own authority... He was non-political.

Jesus did NOT chastise the Roman leaders.

 

[Dawnofhope]

OK.
You believe things that are implausible and unevidenced.
You are religious.
There's nothing surprising, to me, about any of that.
Tom

Not really. History is clear the Jews were on a hiding to nothing rebelling against the Romans. A man of wisdom and foresight would have anticipated the consequences of an active rebellion and counselled turn the other cheek. Sounds plausible to me.

 

[columbus]

I see what you're clinging to now... That the bible is total fiction.

...Under that premise, there really isn't much left to discuss. I mean that sincerely -that there's nothing we can agree or disagree on.

That is simply not true. I don't believe that the Bible is total fiction.

But I do understand why you want to stop the discussion.

Tom

 

[columbus]

Jesus did NOT chastise the Roman leaders.

How can you possibly assert that?
The Romans executed Him for treason. They didn't just do that for fun.

I can understand why His followers didn't write it down. If they did, they'd be likely to get crucified as well. But you cannot credibly claim Jesus didn't do something, just because decades later nobody had a written claim about it. Of course they didn't write that sort of thing down.
Tom

 

[Cooky]

Jesus did NOT chastise the Roman leaders.

After reading your post#19 and this, I'm having trouble following your train of thought. What is your point?

 

[sooda]

After reading your post#19 and this, I'm having trouble following your train of thought. What is your point?

That Jewish prophets were chastising Jewish leaders and the people long before the Romans arrived.

 

[sooda]

How can you possibly assert that?
The Romans executed Him for treason. They didn't just do that for fun.

I can understand why His followers didn't write it down. If they did, they'd be likely to get crucified as well. But you cannot credibly claim Jesus didn't do something, just because decades later nobody had a written claim about it. Of course they didn't write that sort of thing down.
Tom

The Romans executed Jesus for charges brought against him by the Sanhedren.

We don't have a lot to go on. but the Sermon on the Mount is NOT an attack on the Romans.. Its an encouragement on how the Jews can deal with Roman oppression and Roman laws.

Jesus says over and again that his kingdom or the kingdom of God is spiritual.. and then he proposes a revolutionary way to cope passively by shaming the enemy ..

BTW, that Sermon provided inspiration for Gandhi and Martin Luther King.

 

[sooda]

Not really. History is clear the Jews were on a hiding to nothing rebelling against the Romans. A man of wisdom and foresight would have anticipated the consequences of an active rebellion and counselled turn the other cheek. Sounds plausible to me.

The Jews were very fractured in the first century.. They were so fed up that they fought each other and the Romans. Look at the five Jewish factions... (loosely) Pharisees, Saducees, Herodians, Essenes, Zealots and Sicarri.

 

[columbus]

The Romans executed Jesus for charges brought against him by the Sanhedren.

Give me a reason to believe that you know this is true.

I don't believe it is true. I think it's what people, decades and centuries later, claimed because the truth about Jesus didn't work for them.
Tom

 

[sooda]

Give me a reason to believe that you know this is true.

I don't believe it is true. I think it's what people, decades and centuries later, claimed because the truth about Jesus didn't work for them.
Tom

We have very little to go on..

What do you think the truth about Jesus was? You think he was a zealot? There's just no evidence for that in scripture.

The Romans weren't concerned about the Jews and their religion. They just wanted them to behave and pay their taxes.

Further, there is no historical evidence for widespread rebellion or attacks on the Roman occupiers during the lifetime of Jesus.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Jews were very fractured in the first century.. They were so fed up that they fought each other and the Romans. Look at the five Jewish factions... (loosely) Pharisees, Saducees, Herodians, Essenes, Zealots and Sicarri.

Now make a comprehensive list of all the Christian denominations and see if you can include them all in one post.