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Featured The point for Christians of Roman descent?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by MikeDwight, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    Many people might note for Presbyterians, that Scotland was walled off by Hadrian's wall. It wasn't in the Roman Empire. The Scottish Church would be called Celtic Christianity then. The Pope administered Scotland without a bishop as a personal administrative region by papal bull.It became Presbyterian promoting native Christian religions around the world.
    That begs the question more. Whats anybody see in the Roman Christian model. Rome was itself. Constantinople was declared a 2nd Rome and Eastern Roman Empire. At least everybody agreed on that for administrative purposes.
    Moscow and Ottomans competing claims to a 3rd Rome make no sense at all. Moscow's break from the Orthodox fellowship as a pretender to it. The Turks pretending to be Romans more absurd.
    Hitler's less known quotes are about uniting a 3rd Roman Empire, that's the 3rd one from the German Holy Roman Empire. Now its going on without quoting Christianity whatsoever.
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I have no idea what you're looking for here, so maybe clarify?
     
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  3. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    Are you some sort of "Christian" and 1.1 billion of them believe there's a center of Christianity in Rome and St Peter's Basilica, and another Othodox 400 million believe there's a center in Constantinople and the Hagia Sophia. Right there you're already some 10% ignorant person if you don't answer this, correct? The Orthodox Churches form a whole federation with each other each country has a Church in Orthodoxy. Yo'd have to answer that to be any respected Christian whatsoever. That's the title of the post.
     
  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I think that the tradition is to gather truth from around the world, regardless of where it comes from. Hence you've got the church in South America where they honor both saints and the old divinities of the land. What confuses the issue is the way that some missionaries have since rejected the truths they've found in places like Japan and Hawaii. The missionaries to Scotland would have incorporated truths from Scottish culture, so the church there would have benefited from them as well as from the ideas that the church brought with it: charity, forgiveness, unity. The Presbyterians as I understand them are very American. Among them are some liberals and then there is the fundamentalist offshoot. The liberals will readily agree (I assume but don't know) with a traditional missionary who incorporates ideas while the fundamentalists will prefer a bulldozer approach.
     
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  5. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Britain didn't really Christianise till long after the Roman left.

    Moreover, Scotland didn't really exist until centuries after that.
     
  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Everybody knows that the papacy is a political entity. This became clear since the times of the enlightenment period, but it was most obvious from the struggles between multiple popes and from the bad popes such as the Borgia popes. They may direct policy, but they are far removed from actual spiritual potency. Even Roman Catholics, the ones you say all follow the pope, are very diverse among themselves and don't agree all the time with their popes and cardinals. Cardinals often disagree with each other and the pope and do so vocally.
     
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  7. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    Hm well I don't think Christ dying on the Cross without answering the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate was any sort of syncretist. I would not possibly even think of accusing any missionary I've ever listened to as some sort of syncretism fan. Not at all. The resources for ships, anthropology, and to arrive to want nothing , deserts and mud, and to build something there, in dedication to something.


    That makes the PCUSA a total enemy to Christ itself, what is the one Presbyterian mission, I will arrive, and affect the natives to make a native church that is native to the people there of their construction, no foreign building came in to make the church at all, they begged and no, make a native church. mission 1 with mission 2 and mission 3 supporting this.
     
  8. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    "Spiritual Potency" "Political entity"? Are you a spiritualist? There are probably 5 different states today existing directly from religious commission, consider Iran, the Papal state, Israel, we could think of others. I meant Vatican city.
     
  9. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    What a way to start!

    Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is a saying made by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states: "As a discussion on the Internet grows longer, the likelihood of a comparison of a person's being compared to Hitler or another Nazi reference, increases.".

    By tradition, the person who does this is automatically
    declared the loser.
     
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  10. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    That indicates you are taking a fundamentalist approach, reconstructing a religion from the protestant canon. That is a daunting task. I don't blame you for misunderstanding the objectives of the liturgical assemblies. I come from an evangelical charismatic family and am myself unfamiliar with them, so I spent a lot of time trying to do what you are trying to do. Contrary to what the Gideons and bible publishers claim, you can't reconstruct Christianity from the NT alone. Its not a text book. It doesn't explain things such as what worship is, what holy means what sin is. You've got so many holes to fill and so many versions of Christianity that you can construct, and its because lots of parts are missing when you try to do it from the NT even if you also have the OT.

    People like investing ourselves into something with meaning. Missionaries aren't the only ones who do it. People die for causes all the time. I'm not suggesting syncretism, either. I'm saying that the truth of God is everywhere, and the church is on a mission to gather that. It is like gathering manna, and so you have to keep on gathering. At times the churches lose sight of that. Then you see the destructive missionaries instead of the constructive missionaries, and you see a subtractive process which dumps things of value -- such as everything that is good which is Korean for example. Dropping everything good about Korean culture is the kind of thing these missionaries would do, yet we know that Korea had some very good things to share with the world before missionaries arrived. What about those things? Are they to be cast aside?

    There is a translation problem here, and I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. Sorry.
     
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  11. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Conceptual potency, then.
     
  12. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    I'm glad you mentioned Koreans, true that's where I'm well studied. Anyway.
    No, that indicated I'm with the Korean Presbyterian Church position, that everyone who died on this mission is a Martyr listed in a very special canonical list of persons, disease whatever reason. You know, its some American mindset in the American culture itself, we all seem to think we can construct things from pointing to the Bible. That's the Protestant Bible Alone. There's nothing wrong with that. The original Churches that begin every mission with everyone pointing at the Bible should be applauded.

    The Saemoonan Church 새문안교회 honors its position as the Church of Horace Underwood, its original hanok form, the American Mission, the Presbyterian Church of Korea Tonghap and the Korean Presbyterian Church Abroad. Lets note them for doing so.

    You seem to be of the impression true Missionaries are some sort of British Imperialist, first off he's naturalized America, they're all Americans, 2nd, that is sometimes the problem when we talk abotu this, the Spanish invasion/conquistador/mission in Americas. I like to consider the Hungarian conversion to Catholocism, weren't they also open to Reformed conversion when the time showed up? They are new friends to Europe. I believe the Korean Presbyterian Church Right Now, At This Moment, honors Everything the True Christians promoted in Equal presentation as when they were presented to the Koreans from the beginning. What argument do you have otherwise, the development of the gwansa, women community helpers, its purely flaire.
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Sorry, but the above still doesn't make sense to me, and that's for a couple of points that you seem to be trying to make. It's a jumble of words that just doesn't clarify much of anything that you wrote in your OP.

    The "mark" of being Christian isn't that one knows much about the history of the various churches but is whether one believes in Jesus enough to live the kind of life he taught us to live.
     
  14. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    Oh well OK, so you pretend to, Pretend, to care about a Jesus Christ whose word will live through all history according to scripture, the housing of all historians whoever lived whom all accounts of all other religion's histories must travel through Christian monks to be recorded history, then you pretend that I've just named 1.7 billion of 2.2 billion Christians are under a military religious order and you don't care about it. That would make you a lucky man who picked up a book without a friend in the world to interpret it or something. Ya I think that's the book from 200 years ago. Maybe.

    We're discussing an OP That is very Clear about the centers of Catholocism in Rome, the center of Orthodoxy in Constantinople (Istanbul), and why 80% of US. Are we going to step outside your little bible studygroup a minute? Why 80% of us are in these systems.
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Jesus said "judge ye not or you will be judged...", and yet you write the above as if you know more than he.

    If your church teaches you that your approach is somehow moral in any way by Christian standards, then let me recommend finding a church that actually teaches what the gospels actually do say.

    Until then, ...
     
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  16. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    Well this is easy, Jesus said "17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." Matthew 18:17. I have a disagreement with you, now show me the Church so we can disagree there, and the person that does not listen to that is a pagan, or the Romans that extracted tribute from Israel. People like this Golden Rule Christian that never existed. Be nice to everybody. Wash behind your ears.
     
  17. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I believe there are some translation problems and don't understand everything in your post.
     
  18. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    Where are you translating from? Google is bad at translating. I only ever ever studied any Korean at all for Presbyterianism. Whatsoever. Wouldn't have ever had the slightest interest. damimoksa stonewall haha

    So I got a deeper question, how are the King of Korea , the King of France, and their people, unable to show up better than Rodney King? Because you got the Statue of Liberty Land of Exiles.
     
    #18 MikeDwight, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  19. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    If all the Jews believed in Jesus on Sunday, maybe they wouldn't be Synagogues, they'd be Churches. Or's it the other way ? Well Church is just German's "Kirk" anyway, so who knows, really.

    Luke 4:16
    16He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read,

    Mark 5:22 22Then one of the synagogue leaders, named Jairus, came, and when he saw Jesus, he fell at his feet.

    Acts 13:15 15After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, "Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak."

    Luke 4:20 20Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him.

    Mark 1:21 21They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach.
     
  20. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    But "church" (meaning "assembly") is mentioned 109 times in the NT, and not in any kind of negative manner.
     
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