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The place of Women in Quran.

firedragon

Veteran Member
Yes, exactly. I just learned the word "kitman" today, which is different from taqiyya, in that taqiyya is lying performed in order to prevent persecution, while "kitman" is is more specifically used to conceal truths in casual conversations such as this, in order to make Islam appear more palatable.

Obvious indications are the linguistical / logical gymnastics being performed here. Which clearly don't make sense.

Wrong. Kithmaan is a simple word that means to hide something. Some people make a big deal and make some concept later and name it such doesn’t mean you have to not use your intellect.

This is wrong to accuse someone for their effort. Make valid arguments brother rather than turning people into dishonesty. Maybe someone is honestly mistaken.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Wrong. Kithmaan is a simple word that means to hide something. Some people make a big deal and make some concept later and name it such doesn’t mean you have to not use your intellect.

This is wrong to accuse someone for their effort. Make valid arguments brother rather than turning people into dishonesty. Maybe someone is honestly mistaken.

...I'm just pointing out what it looks like. Others see it too.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
I understand what you say. But I’m asking you not to do that. You can use your intellect and use study instead.

I hope you understand.

I'm free to point out what other posters *content* appears like to me, as long as I don't insult them personally.

This is how Western people are. And you're dealing with Westerners. In a debate forum. :cool:
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
You mean taqiyya? Yes, I was thinking that too.

Not that these blatant lies matter. The fact that he feels like he has to defend his position means he's already lost. When you have to justify your religion, you know it's wrong.

Muslims and liberals are fond of citing the Inquisition and the Crusades as proof that "Christianity is just as bad". Sorry, but... the Inquisition was an attempt to determine false converts in lands that were high in Jewish and Muslim people. It really had little to do with witchcraft, that's a story that leftists make up to smear the faith. In Salem, it did, but that was also an extremely clique-ish sect that was probably getting ergot hallucinations, and the rest were exploiting the situation for payback or profit. No, the Inquisition was first and foremost, to torture suspect converts. And you may say "how cruel! How could they do that!" The answer lies in the lead up to the Crusades. The Crusades were NOT for some quest for the Holy Grail or similar nonsense. Rome had received word that the Hagia Sophia, along with much of Turkey, had been invaded. On the other side, Spain was being invaded. Unlike the pagans of much of Europe, they had little taste for reasoned debate, they were coming with their troops to settle European lands, they were coming with their men to breed with their women, and they were coming as "converts" to dilute their faith. Christianity had two choices, become extinct and let the world plunge into darkness once again, or push them back militarily, defend their women, and clean out their churches.

Christianity is constantly made to apologize for the false reasons of the Crusades. When was the last time Islam apologized (really apologized) for the invasions leading up to the Crusades?

What do you think Taqiyya means?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

@firedragon

The instead is not there, it's just my view because the final statement is "and..." in contrast to the others, takes positive action.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
True, like I said, it can also mean "go into them" "move into them" and it would imply intercourse as well.

Brother. When you say idribuhunna it doesn’t imply “into them”.

Analyse the Quran. This word dhrb is mentioned in the Quran more than 40 times. Not sure exactly how many times but at least 42 times if not more.

go analyse it.

I’ll tell you what. There is an App called Darb. It’s the same word. You should see what that’s all about.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Kithmaan shows no results on the www.

...But I think it's clear this thread is intended to shine a positive light on Islam's treatment of women, at any cost. Even if it requires ambiguity, and the redefining of words.

brother, I don’t agree with you. But that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate your thoughts. I appreciate it very much because you are using your aqal and not just being a mukthalidh.

Just that it seems too far fetched.

for example if one is to say “into them” it would be something like alaihim. It says hum or wa idrubuhunna. Read up on transitive and intransitive.

you see the Quran uses it to say travel or go. All over the place. If I say dharabni it would mean struck me. But in this case it means to “travel” and hunna is to say “them” which means we are to leave them.

First it says Nushoozuhunna which would mean to rise up against you or the family shake hand. It could mean a lot of things. It could even mean cheating.

At that time. You are to advice them, then separate them in your man woman relationship, and the leave them. Another place a woman is also given a similar situation with a man where it’s the man who is being disloyal. First advise, if it fails there is no choice. Leave.

peace.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Taqiya was done in the past, when, people literally had to forge hadiths or would be killed if they didn't. I live in Canada, I'm safe, no need of Taqiya.

Bro. You must understand that their knowledge come from propaganda. Nothing else. I don’t mean it derogatory, it’s fact.

It’s the evangelists who have made up all kinds of seriously false and bogus claims about these words and ideas.

seriously shallow.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
brother, I don’t agree with you. But that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate your thoughts. I appreciate it very much because you are using your aqal and not just being a mukthalidh.

Just that it seems too far fetched.

for example if one is to say “into them” it would be something like alaihim. It says hum or wa idrubuhunna. Read up on transitive and intransitive.

you see the Quran uses it to say travel or go. All over the place. If I say dharabni it would mean struck me. But in this case it means to “travel” and hunna is to say “them” which means we are to leave them.

First it says Nushoozuhunna which would mean to rise up against you or the family shake hand. It could mean a lot of things. It could even mean cheating.

At that time. You are to advice them, then separate them in your man woman relationship, and the leave them. Another place a woman is also given a similar situation with a man where it’s the man who is being disloyal. First advise, if it fails there is no choice. Leave.

peace.

Salam

Thanks for your thoughts. I understand, but to me, the word is "fear disloyalty/betrayal", it doesn't say you know it, it says you fear. And we shouldn't act on our fears.

If it said "You know betrayal/disloyalty", I would assume it meant the same as you did. The context is what men are to women, regarding them they are to be up lifters, it's saying, you should honor them and raise their feeling about themselves high, and so even if you fear disloyalty, don't act upon it but rather... this how I understand it.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Bro. You must understand that their knowledge come from propaganda. Nothing else. I don’t mean it derogatory, it’s fact.

It’s the evangelists who have made up all kinds of seriously false and bogus claims about these words and ideas.

seriously shallow.

It's alright, brother, as Muslim nation, we didn't present Islam very well either.

I'm just telling them my thoughts about verses, but, they think I want people to convert which is not my intention at the moment.
 
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