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The place of Women in Quran.

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
It's about Muta ...
Muhammad allowed Mutah [Mut'a], hired prostitutes, a temporary marriage for sex, in exchange for gifts, and while some have said that Muhammad later forbade this on the Day of Khaibar [see below] though there was nothing stated of permanence, but merely for that time being, while others yet say that Muhammad never forbade this, but it was only much later that 'Umar forbade it after the death of Muhammad, and others still yet say, it was never forbidden, while others still say that there are certain conditions that are illegal [according to Shari'ah], but still allowed in the Qur'an [Surah 5:87 (al-Hilali-Khan translation) or also Surah 5:90 (Pickthall translation), etc] and as example was still practised long after the death of Muhammad, in the days of Abu Bakr and 'Umar [see Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3248-3249, etc]. Therefore, there are some Muslim sects, persons which still practice this, while others do not, even amidst differences over it. -

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3248 -

“... Ibn Uraij reported: 'Ati' reported that jibir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) and during the time of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3249 -

“... Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and during the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3250 -

“... Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (Tamattu' of Hajj 1846 and Tamattu' with women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3251 -

“... Iyas b. Salama reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) gave sanction for contracting temporary marriage for three nights in the year of Autas 1847 and then forbade it. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3252 -

“... Sabra Juhanni reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted temporary marriage for us. So I and another person went out and saw a woman of Bana 'Amir, who was like a young long-necked she-camel. We presented ourselves to her (for contracting temporary marriage), whereupon she said: What dower would you give me? I said: My cloak. And my companion also said: My cloak. And the cloak of-my companion was superior to my cloak, but I was younger than he. So when she looked at the cloak of my companion she liked it, and when she cast a glance at me I looked more attractive to her. She then said: Well, you and your cloak are sufficient for me. I remained with her for three nights, and then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He who has any such woman with whom he had contracted temporary marriage, he should let her off. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3253 -

“... Rabi' b. Sabra reported that his father went on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) during the Victory of Mecca, and we stayed there for fifteen days (i. e. for thirteen full days and a day and a night), and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage with women. So I and another person of my tribe went out, and I was more handsome than he, whereas he was almost ugly. Each one of us had a cloaks, My cloak was worn out, whereas the cloak of my cousin was quite new. As we reached the lower or the upper side of Mecca, we came across a young woman like a young smart long-necked she-camel. We said: Is it possible that one of us may contract temporary marriage with you? She said: What will you give me as a dower? Each one of us spread his cloak. She began to cast a glance on both the persons. My companion also looked at her when she was casting a glance at her side and he said: This cloak of his is worn out, whereas my cloak is quite new. She, however, said twice or thrice: There is no harm in (accepting) this cloak (the old one). So I contracted temporary marriage with her, and I did not come out (of this) until Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) declared it forbidden. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3254 -

“... Rabi' b. S'abra al-jahanni reported on the authority of his father. We went with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to Mecca during the year of Victory and he narrated like this a hadith transmitted by Bishr (the previous one) but with this addition: “She said: Can it be possible?” And it is also mentioned in it: “He said: The cloak of this (man) is old and worn out.” ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3255 -

“... Sabra al-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father that while he was with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) he said: O people, I had permitted you to contract temporary marriage with women, but Allah has forbidden it (now) until the Day of Resurrection. So he who has any (woman with this type of marriage contract) he should let her off, and do not take back anything you have given to then (as dower). ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3257 -

“... 'Abd al-Malik b. Rabi' b. Sabraal-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father who narrated it on the authority of his father (i e. 'Abd al-Malik's grandfather, Sabura al-juhanni): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage in the Year of Victory, as we entered Mecca, and we did come out of it but he forbade us to do it. ...”​
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
It's about Muta ...
Muhammad allowed Mutah [Mut'a], hired prostitutes, a temporary marriage for sex, in exchange for gifts, and while some have said that Muhammad later forbade this on the Day of Khaibar [see below] though there was nothing stated of permanence, but merely for that time being, while others yet say that Muhammad never forbade this, but it was only much later that 'Umar forbade it after the death of Muhammad, and others still yet say, it was never forbidden, while others still say that there are certain conditions that are illegal [according to Shari'ah], but still allowed in the Qur'an [Surah 5:87 (al-Hilali-Khan translation) or also Surah 5:90 (Pickthall translation), etc] and as example was still practised long after the death of Muhammad, in the days of Abu Bakr and 'Umar [see Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3248-3249, etc]. Therefore, there are some Muslim sects, persons which still practice this, while others do not, even amidst differences over it. -

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3258 -

“... Sabra b. Ma'bad reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) permitted his Companions to contract temporary marriage with women in the Year of Victory. So I and a friend of mine from Banu Sulaim went out, until we found a young woman of Banu Amir who was like a young she-camel having a long neck. We made proposal to her for contracting temporary marriage with us, and presented to her our cloaks (as dower). She began to look and found me more handsome than my friend, but found the cloak of my friend more beautiful than my cloak. She thought in her wind for a while, but then preferred me to my friend. So I remained with her for three (nights), and then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded us to part with them (such women). ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3260 -

“... Rabi' b. Sabra reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade on the Day of Victory to contract temporary marriage with women. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Rabi' b. Sabra that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade to contract temporary marriage with women at the time of Victory, and that his father had contracted the marriage for two red cloaks. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3261 -

“... 'Urwa b. Zabair reported that 'Abdullah b. Zubair (Allah be pleased with him) stood up (and delivered an address) in Mecca saying: Allah has made blind the hearts of some people as He has deprived them of eyesight that they give religious verdict in favour of temporary marriage, while he was alluding to a person (Ibn 'Abbas). Ibn Abbas called him and said: You are an uncouth person, devoid of sense. By my life, Mut'a was practised during the lifetime of the leader of the pious (he meant Allah's Messenger, may peace be upon him), and Ibn Zubair said to him: just do it yourselves, and by Allah, if you do that I will stone you with your stones. Ibn Shihab said. Khalid b. Muhajir b. Saifullah informed me: While I was sitting in the company of a person, a person came to him and he asked for a religious verdict about Mut'a and he permitted him to do it. Ibn Abu 'Amrah al-Ansari (Allah be pleased with him) said to him: Be gentle. It was permitted in the early days of Islam, (for one) who was driven to it under the stress of necessity just as (the eating of) carrion and the blood and flesh of swine and then Allah intensified (the commands of) His religion and prohibited it (altogether). Ibn Shihab reported: Rabi' b. Sabra told me that his father (Sabra) said: I contracted temporary marriage with a woman of Banu 'Amir for two cloaks during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ; then he forbade us to do Mut'a. Ibn Shihab said: I heard Rabi' b. Sabra narrating it to Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz and I was sitting there. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3262 -

“... Sabra al-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage and said: Behold, it is forbidden from this very day of yours to the Day of Resurrection, and he who has given something (as a dower) should not take it back. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3263 -

“... 'Ali b. AbiTalib reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited on the Day of Khaibar the contracting of temporary marriage with women and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3264 -

“... Malik narrated this hadith on the authority of the same chain of transmitters that 'Ali b. Abil Talib said to a person: You are a person led astray; Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade us (to do Mut'a), as is stated in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Yahya b. Malik. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3265 -

“... Muhammad b. 'Ali narrated on the authority of his father 'Ali that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited for ever the contracting of temporary marriage and eating of the flesh of the domestic asses. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3266 -

“... 'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) heard that Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) gave some relaxation in connection with the contracting of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Don't be hasty (in your religious verdict), Ibn 'Abbas, for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited for ever the doing of it-And eating of the flesh of domestic asses. ...”​

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Chapter 3, Number 3267 -

“... 'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) said to Ibn 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) that Allah's
Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar forbade forever the contracting of temporary marriage and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses. ...”​
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's about Muta, you want to understand Muta, see that thread as well.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
1. "beat them"

It literally in the context, means sex. It means continue and do have intercourse with them. The verse is saying don't act according to your fear but rather, just admonish them while not talking to them about it as well as not admonishing them in their bedrooms regarding it and to continue to have intercourse with them.

It's been twisted and recited in the worst possible way, and God is the refuge from Satan.

How does that mean "have sex"? Forget about rationality and logic for a moment, how does this verse mean "have sex"? Can you explain linguistically?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How does that mean "have sex"? Forget about rationality and logic for a moment, how does this verse mean "have sex"? Can you explain linguistically?

The Quran says "when you touched women" or "went inside woman" but we know it means had sex with them, it doesn't go to details, and almost always is referred to indirectly, and the details not explicitly mention, this in context of admonishing them but not to the extent that you talk to them about it the bedrooms nor the extent you stop having intercourse with them.

It's the same way you read "touched them" as in sex, or "come to your harvest from whence you want"... although none of those linguistically mean sex, they are understood by context, to mean that.

The same is true of the word here.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
The Quran says "when you touched women" or "went inside woman" but we know it means had sex with them, it doesn't go to details, and almost always is referred to indirectly, and the details not explicitly mention, this in context of admonishing them but not to the extent that you talk to them about it the bedrooms nor the extent you stop having intercourse with them.

It's the same way you read "touched them" as in sex, or "come to your harvest from whence you want"... although none of those linguistically mean sex, they are understood by context, to mean that.

The same is true of the word here.

Whatever. LOL.

So "beat" also means have sex... Riiight... :rolleyes:
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So is this "beating" a form of reprimand?
Is it ok if she feels humiliated while being beaten?

It's not as you think, it means continue to have intercourse and don't subject the woman to your suspicions. If you fear and are suspicious go ahead admonish them, but do not talk about it and leave them alone regarding this in the bedrooms, and continue to beat/have intercourse with them...
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I never understood why people think it's okay to beat a woman based on fears the man has or for a man to act on his fear!
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
It's not as you think, it means continue to have intercourse and don't subject the woman to your suspicions. If you fear and are suspicious go ahead admonish them, but do not talk about it and leave them alone regarding this in the bedrooms, and continue to beat/have intercourse with them...

Oh I see, so if you suspect she's been cheating on you, you beat her (make love to her) in bed.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Oh I see, so if you suspect she's been cheating on you, you beat her (make love to her) in bed.

Exactly, you don't act on fears. It even concludes if they obey them in what they admonish them, not to seek a way against them. So you can admonish them but if they obey, never go further with your fears.

It's different if you have proof, that calls for a different action.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's probably because you are use to the translation.

I would start the translation as:

الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ

Men are up lifters regarding women


بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ

by what God has made some of them excel others



وَبِمَا أَنْفَقُوا مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ


And by what God has made them spend their money




ۚ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَ


So the righteous (women) are those obedient and guarding the hidden that which God has guarded




اللَّاتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ

So those who you fear disloyalty from



فَعِظُوهُنَّ

So admonish them

وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ

And leave them (regarding this ie. don't admonish them)


فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ

in the bed rooms

وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ ۖ

And instead beat them (with your...)/have intercourse with them



فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلَا تَبْغُوا عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلًا ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا {34}
So then if they obey you do not seek a way against them verily God is Exalted Great.
 
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