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Featured The place of Women in Quran.

Discussion in 'Quranic Debates' started by Link, Feb 15, 2020.

  1. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    A fair way to approach a holy book is to say, what does it say regarding women. Is it just or unjust? Fair or unfair to them?

    And if there are differences in practice and law with regards to them, does it justify it?

    Dealing with some Edge cases.

    1. "beat them"

    It literally in the context, means sex. It means continue and do have intercourse with them. The verse is saying don't act according to your fear but rather, just admonish them while not talking to them about it as well as not admonishing them in their bedrooms regarding it and to continue to have intercourse with them.

    It's been twisted and recited in the worst possible way, and God is the refuge from Satan.

    2. Allowed to have sex with women slaves.

    No such thing, see the thread about whether Quran ever allowed slavery.

    3. Don't need permission of Wife to marry another.

    False, a woman when entering marriage has sexual authority over her husband, as such, the husband needs permission from his wife/wives to marry another.

    4. A woman as a half-witness.

    Two women are required in place of a man with regards to somethings, but this not due to weakness on their part, but a strength, in that, they can remember from associations better then men. Men think in boxes while women by associations, so woman associating another woman with the event can remember through that association, while chances are it won't have that firm effect with a man. This doesn't mean their memory is worse, it means, they can remember due to another reminding them while a man probably would not.

    5. Inheritance is due to woman not working or something on those lines.

    To me and I can be wrong, but it seems, the inheritance law is to protect women from men seeking daughters of rich fathers to marry. It seems woman look for character already, but, bad enough men care mostly on looks and it would be worse if they can get as much inheritance from the rich father of their wife. It seems this law was a protective measure against this. Khadija was wealthy and worked hard to reach the status and position in wealth and commerce that she did. She is deemed one of the greatest woman to ever live.

    6. Why can men marry more then one wife?

    Aside from the child being known, it was said, this was to take care of orphans and with that intention or similar noble intentions, but if the man feels he can't act justly towards them, to marry only one. Besides that a man can't without woman's permission per Quran ( I know Shiite and Sunni Jurists disagree and will say wife's permission not required).


    Now these are the edge cases I know about. Now if anyone can bring other edge cases, I will try to respond. If not, I will talk about the position of women in Quran aside from the edge cases in my next post.






     
  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I think that even according to your relatively moderate interpretation of the Quran, the position of women in the Quran is a bad joke.

    Besides, if your interpretational creativity can allow “beat them” to mean, “continue to have sex with them” then you may as well use that same reaching creativity to make “two female witnesses are required” to mean “two female witnesses are better than one male witness but not essential”
     
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  3. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    What is the bad thing about woman in Quran from your view?
     
  4. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    To pick an obvious example, requiring 2 female witnesses thereby placing them at a legal disadvantage.
     
  5. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    There is one verse regarding two witnesses and it's regarding transaction, and it's as you said, it's optional recommendation. Only one woman is required to testify, but if she forgets, she can get the other to remind her. If she doesn't forget, she has no need of her alibi, but it's suggested to bring alibi because she can be reminded by her while with a man and alibi, he may not remember even if the alibi insists! This is just due to how memory works, women think in associations.

    The verse didn't say both have to testify, it said if one forgets, the other can remind her. Didn't say they both have to remember and testify.
     
  6. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I couldn’t find anything peer reviewed saying that, “women think in associations” so i’m not sure if this is just your personal opinion or if it is well supported scientifically.
     
  7. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    They make connections with memory like a giant web. We men on the other hand put things in boxes. Two different ways of memorizing I will get you some articles about it.
     
  8. SaintUriah

    SaintUriah Member

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    Why does the son's share double the daughter's to inheritance?
     
  9. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure, but this was my guess:

    To me and I can be wrong, but it seems, the inheritance law is to protect women from men seeking daughters of rich fathers to marry. It seems woman look for character already, but, bad enough men care mostly on looks and it would be worse if they can get as much inheritance from the rich father of their wife. It seems this law was a protective measure against this. Khadija was wealthy and worked hard to reach the status and position in wealth and commerce that she did. She is deemed one of the greatest woman to ever live.
     
  10. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    Here is an article that our brains differ biologically:

    How men's and women's brains are different

    Here is a relevant quote to the issue:

    Many of these cognitive differences appear quite early in life. “You see sex differences in spatial-visualization ability in 2- and 3-month-old infants,” Halpern says. Infant girls respond more readily to faces and begin talking earlier. Boys react earlier in infancy to experimentally induced perceptual discrepancies in their visual environment. In adulthood, women remain more oriented to faces, men to things.



    My comment: If women are more oriented to faces and emotional memory is higher, they can better make use of alibi. While if men are to things more, they don't benefit from a face as much to remember the event.
     
  11. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    Also:

    Discoveries like this one should ring researchers’ alarm buzzers. Women, it’s known, retain stronger, more vivid memories of emotional events than men do.

    My comment: Adding an alibi adds more of an emotional side to a pretty dry transaction event, and so woman can remember better through an alibi and as the post above shows, they remember events through faces better!
     
  12. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Banned

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    What's ridiculous is your assumption that women would forget in the first place, regardless of how they think, and require some kind of help remembering.

    ...Where is your evidence that women are more forgetful than men? Ir is that notion based in Islamic bigotry?
     
  13. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I made no such assumption. I'm saying they can take advantage of memory by association of emotions and a face, hence, make use of an alibi.

    If she doesn't forget, her testimony is enough.
     
  14. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Banned

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    WHY WOULD SHE FORGET...???
    Men are more forgetful than women, study shows

    ...The whole notion makes no sense!
     
  15. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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  16. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Banned

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    For Mohammed's sake, your logic makes no sense.
     
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  17. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    It's not that men are better are remembering, is that women can remember through an alibi and make use of one better while men don't have good emotional memory and won't be reminded from a friendly face as much as a woman.
     
  18. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Banned

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    Whatever.
     
  19. SaintUriah

    SaintUriah Member

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    Because they had no inheritance before islam for that she Take a half if was one dougther and share two thirds if they are more than two sisters

    Why Focus on tow sisters to make the son Take double

    I did not find how prophet's Muhammad did this

    ..

    Where did the woman come from?
     
  20. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I don't know to be honest, I've been thinking about it. This is indeed a hard edge case.
     
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