The Passion of Christ: A Gay Vision

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is a denomination based on "Jesus didn't say it. So we don't believe it. And that settles it."
Google" Jesus Metropolitan Community Church " I have been, it's a little fundamentalist for my taste.
Tom

I've heard of the MCC. Never been, but they do strike me as being pretty Evangelical in their leanings. Which is fine, if it's your thing.

 

[InChrist]

I find it interesting, if not saddening that people so often have to remake Jesus in their own image...
Leaving Behind a Jesus Created in Our Image

 

[outlawState]

That's not a Catholic teaching so that has nothing to do with me.

Romanss "There is no distinction, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

Paul says that Adam was not deceived, but I say that he must have been deluded none the less as to the advantages of following his wife. If you deny that men are deluded, then you deny that they are sinners. You would be a Pelagian heretic of the most extreme kind, as adjudged by Roman Catholicism.

Jesus never said that. Jesus also broke the OT Law (healing on the Sabbath and pardoning the woman caught in adultery, who was to be stoned to death, for example), revealing a higher Law of Grace through love. He was not a legalist and came to reveal the true spirit of the Law.

Jesus did not break any law as properly interpreted, and it was only figuratively to do with "revealing a higher law of grace." Everything in the law was already written into the law when Jesus came. He revealed the grace of God, for sure, but it was not by any amendment to the law but by fulfilling it, that we might be set free from having to be justified by it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Romanss "There is no distinction, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

Paul says that Adam was not deceived, but I say that he must have been deluded none the less as to the advantages of following his wife. If you deny that men are deluded, then you deny that they are sinners. You would be a Pelagian heretic of the most extreme kind, as adjudged by Roman Catholicism.


Jesus did not break any law as properly interpreted, and it was only figuratively to do with "revealing a higher law of grace." Everything in the law was already written into the law when Jesus came. He revealed the grace of God, for sure, but it was not by any amendment to the law but by fulfilling it, that we might be set free from having to be justified by it.

Sure, we're all sinners. I'll leave it there since I don't have anything else to say to you and I didn't post this in a debate section in the first place. Happy Pascha.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I find it interesting, if not saddening that people so often have to remake Jesus in their own image...
Leaving Behind a Jesus Created in Our Image

I think you've missed the point of this project.

 

[columbus]

I've heard of the MCC. Never been, but they do strike me as being pretty Evangelical in their leanings. Which is fine, if it's your thing.

It isn't my thing.
But several years back I wound up in an Easter extravaganza that went on and on.
I went to my favorite, Easter Vigil service at my church. That was several hours of a celebration of Hope. Around dusk 'til 1am.
Then, in the morning I went to Easter Mass with my mom. My late father couldn't go with her, so I did.
Then a friend of ours wanted to go to Easter Service at JMMC, but not by himself. So I went to that one as well.

18 hours of the celebration of Hope! With a few sleep and smoke breaks.
I've had worse problems. It was a good day.
Tom

 

[outlawState]

18 hours of the celebration of Hope!

Hope is hopeless if you're tied to a stake in the sand with the tide coming in and there's no-one about. Think of all the marriages that start in hope, and then end in divorce.

As Iraneus relates of Polycarp, when learning that the heretic Cerinthus was at the baths, he said: "let us fly for the enemy of truth is there and the roof might fall in upon us."

"I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars.."Rev 3;9.

Replace jews for christians, synagogue for church, and what do you have? The MCC.

 

[InChrist]

I think you've missed the point of this project.

Well, what is the point from your perspective?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, what is the point from your perspective?

To show the dignity of queer people, God's love for us and God's love of the diversity that He created as well as the hypocrisy of those despise us while hiding behind religion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hope is hopeless if you're tied to a stake in the sand with the tide coming in and there's no-one about. Think of all the marriages that start in hope, and then end in divorce.

As Iraneus relates of Polycarp, when learning that the heretic Cerinthus was at the baths, he said: "let us fly for the enemy of truth is there and the roof might fall in upon us."

"I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars.."Rev 3;9.

Replace jews for christians, synagogue for church, and what do you have? The MCC.

That could easily be turned around on you.

 

[InChrist]

To show the dignity of queer people, God's love for us and God's love of the diversity that He created as well as the hypocrisy of those despise us while hiding behind religion.

Okay, thanks for sharing your thoughts, but I personally think Jesus has done a tremendous job already of showing the value of ALL people and demonstrating His love for everyone.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Okay, thanks for sharing your thoughts, but I personally think Jesus has done a tremendous job already of showing the value of ALL people and demonstrating His love for everyone.

That's fair. I started this thread to share with people and inspire people. If it's not for you, that's fine. People find inspiration in different things.

 

[columbus]

Okay, thanks for sharing your thoughts, but I personally think Jesus has done a tremendous job already of showing the value of ALL people and demonstrating His love for everyone.

Knowing what I know about the history and worldview of Christendom, I am not impressed by Jesus's job of showing the value of all people.
And Christian's idea of demonstrating His love for me includes gay bashing and "conversion therapy".
Thanks, but no thanks. Keep it to yourself brother.
Tom

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Now Jesus said not one tittle will fall from the law. So that means, no LGBT are Christian. By his own words.

And as that law is generally recognized to be some 613 Mitvot (how could it mean anything else coming from someone referred to as "Rabbi?"), it would seem that everybody and their pets are constantly breaking the large majority of them.

 

[InChrist]

And as that law is generally recognized to be some 613 Mitvot (how could it mean anything else coming from someone referred to as "Rabbi?"), it would seem that everybody and their pets are constantly breaking the large majority of them.

True...

... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God ( Romans 3:23 )

 

[outlawState]

And as that law is generally recognized to be some 613 Mitvot (how could it mean anything else coming from someone referred to as "Rabbi?"), it would seem that everybody and their pets are constantly breaking the large majority of them.

That's OK because Christians are not justified by the law. But they, even Gentiles, do have to uphold the relevant law to be a Christian. Relevant law includes all law relating to sexual morality (Act 15:20, [URL='https://www.blueletterbible.org/niv/act/15/29/s_1033029']Act 15:29, [URL='https://www.blueletterbible.org/niv/act/21/25/s_1039025']Act 21:25).[/URL][/URL]

 

[InChrist]

Knowing what I know about the history and worldview of Christendom, I am not impressed by Jesus's job of showing the value of all people.
And Christian's idea of demonstrating His love for me includes gay bashing and "conversion therapy".
Thanks, but no thanks. Keep it to yourself brother.
Tom

Not all Christian bash and I really don't know what conversion therapy involves. Should I suppose that when the scriptures record Jesus preventing the crowds from stoning a woman to death for her immoral lifestyle and then telling her to "go sin no more" you would conclude he was devaluing her?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That's OK because Christians are not justified by the law. But they, even Gentiles, do have to uphold the relevant law to be a Christian. Relevant law includes all law relating to sexual morality (Act 15:20, Act 15:29, Act 21:25).

Really -- just sex? Not diet, dress, worship practices? I rather think that in a battle of "find the scripture to support that statement,' you might not come up a clear winner.

For my own part, I call it the "Biblical smorgasbord." It's all there for the eating, but just take the bits you like -- somebody else will eat the rest, or we can feed it to the hogs, later.

 

[outlawState]

Really -- just sex? Not diet, dress, worship practices? I rather think that in a battle of "find the scripture to support that statement,' you might not come up a clear winner.

For my own part, I call it the "Biblical smorgasbord." It's all there for the eating, but just take the bits you like -- somebody else will eat the rest, or we can feed it to the hogs, later.

That's because you don't understand it. Some people throw out the whole book of Revelation because they don't understand it.

What you need to understand with spiritual things, is that everything is hierarchically structured, and vertically integrated. As man moves up the spiritual scale, or rather, as God moves him up by enhancing the relevation of himself, things drop out at the bottom end. Christians are required to be concerned for the spiritual law.

In times of old, it was spiritual to obey certain rules and regulations, for sure, because they affected health and well-being. But the "do not touch, do not taste, do not eat" laws have been superseded, by the command of the apostles. Also accomodation had to be made for the Gentiles. However I think you find most law relating to human behavioural interaction remain pretty much intact under the NT, or is even increased under Christ.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That's because you don't understand it. Some people throw out the whole book of Revelation because they don't understand it.

What you need to understand with spiritual things, is that everything is hierarchically structured, and vertically integrated. As man moves up the spiritual scale, or rather, as God moves him up by enhancing the relevation of himself, things drop out at the bottom end. Christians are required to be concerned for the spiritual law.

In times of old, it was spiritual to obey certain rules and regulations, for sure, because they affected health and well-being. But the "do not touch, do not taste, do not eat" laws have been superseded, by the command of the apostles. Also accomodation had to be made for the Gentiles. However I think you find most law relating to human behavioural interaction remain pretty much intact under the NT, or is even increased under Christ.

Except, as you've been at some pains to point out, things that you personally do not approve of.