the Pagans tea-room

[Quintessence]

I'll stick to my cup of tea.

What brought you to the forums?

I deliberately sought out an inter-religious forum where I could bounce questions off people with diverse perspectives. Every so often I run across a theological idea that boggles me, and input from representatives of other faiths becomes very helpful in understanding a bit more about others.

 

[Cassiopia]

Well I usually post on pagan sites (ESF in particular) but I like to learn and discuss things beyond my own path, or to look at my own ideas and beliefs from a wider perspective so I thought I would try this place out.
I like to be challenged by new ideas or to hone my own ideas by defending or explaining them to others.

 

[Quintessence]

What does ESF stand for? I'm familiar with a number of the sites out there, but that one isn't ringing a bell.

I used to post irregularly over at Mystic Wicks, but that site has become less forum-oriented and much less active since I joined.

 

[Cassiopia]

I used to be a regular at MW until it went downhill. ESF is Earthsong Forums.

 

[Quintessence]

Looks like a smaller forum. I've joined enough of them recently that I probably won't hop into this one.

RF isn't too bad so far, though there are a few members whose... perspectives are a tad off-putting. But you find that in any forum. I'm just learning to ignore the posters who seem to lack respect for others' beliefs. There are enough thoughtful people around here to more than make up for a few sour lemons.

So what's important to you in your path, Cassiopia? I see you identify as generic contemporary Pagan, but doubtless there's more nuances than that. I keep my label generic also as there doesn't seem to be a more precise one that I feel I should claim. Identifiers mean different things to different people and some folks get uppity if you claim certain labels. 'Tis easier for me to avoid confusions or nonsense by staying generic. Then people ask instead of assume things (usually).

 

[Draka]

Hello you two. Nice to see the Tea Room being used again. It's been so long. Shall I dust off the tables, put on some tea, and start baking the cookies?

I would really like to see more of a Pagan presence here myself. Use to be a lot more active here. I've seen so many come and go and some drift in and out. Do hope you'll both stay around for a while.

So what are your beliefs? Can you nutshell them at least? I do claim Wicca as my religion and it does seem to bring the occasional erroneous assumption. I try to describe my beliefs as an amalgamation of panentheism, polytheism and neoplatonism. Not that that seems to help much people. I've written some nice stuff in my EBOS about my beliefs, including a nice likening to an ocean, if anyone is interested that is. Either way, do share.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Came here almost immediately after being banned from a decidedly Christian fundy-run group on FB, after a well-timed recommendation.

Note: my banning was essentially mutual.

Still looking around, but tea would be nice. With some Barenjager, thanks.

 

[Cassiopia]

So what's important to you in your path, Cassiopia? I see you identify as generic contemporary Pagan, but doubtless there's more nuances than that. I keep my label generic also as there doesn't seem to be a more precise one that I feel I should claim. Identifiers mean different things to different people and some folks get uppity if you claim certain labels. 'Tis easier for me to avoid confusions or nonsense by staying generic. Then people ask instead of assume things (usually).

So what are your beliefs? Can you nutshell them at least? I do claim Wicca as my religion and it does seem to bring the occasional erroneous assumption. I try to describe my beliefs as an amalgamation of panentheism, polytheism and neoplatonism. Not that that seems to help much people. I've written some nice stuff in my EBOS about my beliefs, including a nice likening to an ocean, if anyone is interested that is. Either way, do share.

It's rather hard to put my beliefs in a nutshell. I was brought up Catholic. Looked into a lot of philosophies and religions in my teens. Then I was and still am highly influenced by Taoism. I later got interested in paganism generally and Wicca in particular. I joined a coven but left for various reasons before taking my first degree. (I am still on friendly terms with the coven that trained me). I am polytheistic in my own way and think of Het Hert as my guide and matron deity but my views are very eclectic. I guess I am quite Wiccan in a practical sense and more generally Pagan or Taoist philosophically.

Came here almost immediately after being banned from a decidedly Christian fundy-run group on FB, after a well-timed recommendation.

Note: my banning was essentially mutual.

Still looking around, but tea would be nice. With some Barenjager, thanks.

I guess I'm filling in as the waitress here now!
Ah well, enjoy your tea...
I'll join you for breakfast. Strong espresso and a cigarette.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Hm, you're sitting downwind then! No smokes over food!

 

[Cassiopia]

Sorry, didn't know you were eating.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Tea is food! Heh.

 

[Draka]

Tea is food! Heh.

Fresh hot cookies out of the oven. I have oatmeal and white chocolate macadamia nut. Help yourself.

It's rather hard to put my beliefs in a nutshell. I was brought up Catholic. Looked into a lot of philosophies and religions in my teens. Then I was and still am highly influenced by Taoism. I later got interested in paganism generally and Wicca in particular. I joined a coven but left for various reasons before taking my first degree. (I am still on friendly terms with the coven that trained me). I am polytheistic in my own way and think of Het Hert as my guide and matron deity but my views are very eclectic. I guess I am quite Wiccan in a practical sense and more generally Pagan or Taoist philosophically.

I do find Wiccan practices a very nice way to actualize my beliefs. I hold most of the beliefs, but what I believe really goes beyond the scope of just Wicca as well, or at least what most people think of or define Wicca as. Perhaps I should say I'm Wicca+

 

[Quintessence]

Cookies!?
Gosh, this site has so many emoticons for the strangest things. And yet the ones I like to use most often seem conspicuously absent. Regardless, I intend to stay around here for a while, when time permits.

Draka, my path probably has the most in common with aspects of Green and Hedge Witchcraft. For the Green Witchcraft bit, basically my path is very nature-centered, locally-oriented, pantheistic, and animistic. I work primarily with the Nature Spirits (which to me are deity-equivalent) around me as they present themselves. In a sense maybe you could also use the term "religious naturalist" for me, and much of what is presented in naturalistic (scientific) pantheism is a very close fit for me. However, I also acknowledge aspects of reality beyond what science can measure or know: the otherworlds. Hence the Hedge Witchcraft bit, as I work extensively with the otherworlds.

As with a lot of Neopagans, I initially started in Wicca. I didn't stick with it long because the notion of projecting gender onto everything in the universe didn't sit well with me. I'm also not that ceremonialist when it comes to doing ritual and spellcraft, and Wicca's liturgy - being derived from the Golden Dawn and ceremonial magic - wasn't appealing. Granted, how ceremonialist Wicca gets depends somewhat on the tradition.

 

[Draka]

Cookies!?
Gosh, this site has so many emoticons for the strangest things. And yet the ones I like to use most often seem conspicuously absent. Regardless, I intend to stay around here for a while, when time permits.

Draka, my path probably has the most in common with aspects of Green and Hedge Witchcraft. For the Green Witchcraft bit, basically my path is very nature-centered, locally-oriented, pantheistic, and animistic. I work primarily with the Nature Spirits (which to me are deity-equivalent) around me as they present themselves. In a sense maybe you could also use the term "religious naturalist" for me, and much of what is presented in naturalistic (scientific) pantheism is a very close fit for me. However, I also acknowledge aspects of reality beyond what science can measure or know: the otherworlds. Hence the Hedge Witchcraft bit, as I work extensively with the otherworlds.

As with a lot of Neopagans, I initially started in Wicca. I didn't stick with it long because the notion of projecting gender onto everything in the universe didn't sit well with me. I'm also not that ceremonialist when it comes to doing ritual and spellcraft, and Wicca's liturgy - being derived from the Golden Dawn and ceremonial magic - wasn't appealing. Granted, how ceremonialist Wicca gets depends somewhat on the tradition.

Yeah, I'm not into all the bells and whistles. I have a more laid-back approach to ritual and prayer. There are certain things I do which are "ceremonial" to me, like proper casting of circles and calling of quarters and along those lines, but everything else is very much a "what feels right" thing to me. I'm not rigid. I also see beyond the gender thing. I acknowledge certain aspects of gender in particular things, but I see the Divine Itself as genderless, a permeating Energy or Source which flows through all. It is merely the aspects of the Divine, which hold certain traits, that are more relate-able and understandable when seen through gender influenced eyes. Thus my vision of the gods are as manifestations of aspects of the Divine. Since the Divine is a part of us and we all contribute to it as well, then the manifestations of aspects of ourselves, as realized through the Divine, can reasonably be held to have gender...as we do. It's how we relate to Them and They to us.

I hope that all made sense, I'm kinda startin' to buzz on my coffee now

 

[Cassiopia]

Yeah, I'm not into all the bells and whistles. I have a more laid-back approach to ritual and prayer. There are certain things I do which are "ceremonial" to me, like proper casting of circles and calling of quarters and along those lines, but everything else is very much a "what feels right" thing to me. I'm not rigid. I also see beyond the gender thing. I acknowledge certain aspects of gender in particular things, but I see the Divine Itself as genderless, a permeating Energy or Source which flows through all. It is merely the aspects of the Divine, which hold certain traits, that are more relate-able and understandable when seen through gender influenced eyes. Thus my vision of the gods are as manifestations of aspects of the Divine. Since the Divine is a part of us and we all contribute to it as well, then the manifestations of aspects of ourselves, as realized through the Divine, can reasonably be held to have gender...as we do. It's how we relate to Them and They to us.

I hope that all made sense, I'm kinda startin' to buzz on my coffee now

I feel pretty much the same as you on those things.

And I could do with another coffee. :coffee2:

 

[Freedomelf]

I am a Christian-Pagan. Am I welcome? Christian-Pagans believe that Jesus was God, but that he also came to many other peoples, in many other forms, including as a woman, in some lifetimes. We believe that the Bible mangled him to reflect the culture. He came to the Holy Lands to try to make people realize that they should love all peoples, not just their own, and respect all religions, not just their own. They crucified him for it. At least, this is my view. I am more Pagan in my beliefs because I am very much against "you're going to hell if you don't believe in us" religions. Respect all faiths, because all contain truths, and all contain myths. I think the Bible is 90 percent fiction.

If you only want traditional Pagans in here, then I won't be offended if you ask me to leave. Bright blessings to all of you. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable.

 

[Iti oj]

I am a Christian-Pagan. Am I welcome? Christian-Pagans believe that Jesus was God, but that he also came to many other peoples, in many other forms, including as a woman, in some lifetimes. We believe that the Bible mangled him to reflect the culture. He came to the Holy Lands to try to make people realize that they should love all peoples, not just their own, and respect all religions, not just their own. They crucified him for it. At least, this is my view. I am more Pagan in my beliefs because I am very much against "you're going to hell if you don't believe in us" religions. Respect all faiths, because all contain truths, and all contain myths. I think the Bible is 90 percent fiction.

If you only want traditional Pagans in here, then I won't be offended if you ask me to leave. Bright blessings to all of you. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable.

haha i was just gonna ask if a chaor fits.... but seriously you and your path is beautiful. its a pleasure to meet you

 

[Quintessence]

I can't speak for others, but Christopaganism doesn't bother me. There are some who regard it as a contradiction in terms, and to some extent I agree, but really, there is no reason why Christian mythology can't be treated in a polytheistic fashion. Christianity is practically polytheistic anyway compared to some of the other monotheistic faiths, given the trinity and the plethora of saints and angels, and there already exist in the world syncretic mixes between Christianity and more indigenous ways of doing things (happened a lot when Christianity was exported for instance). My list of what Paganism is goes like this:

When defining religions, we need to bear in mind that the process of capturing a vast territory with a single word can obscure underlying depth and breadth. I use a single word - Paganism - to describe a group of religious practices that vary significantly beneath that broad label. The list below represents an overview of qualities and characteristics typically seen in Pagan religions. They degree of weight given to each will vary, but each is present to some degree. Each of these will be explained in more detail further on.

• Locality-oriented. Pagan practices are an expression of the surrounding local environment.
• Nature-centered. Pagans conceive of the sacred in a way that is inexorably tied to the natural world.
• Pluralistic. Pagans are tolerant of diverse god-concepts as they themselves have diverse god-concepts.
• Immanent. Pagans see the divine as primarily manifest within the world rather than separate from it.
• Experiential. Pagan practices are rooted in experience and living mythology rather than dogma.
• Hedonistic. Pagans accept self-satisfaction, worldliness, and pleasure as essential human experiences.

Pagan religions, unlike the other world religions, rarely have a founder. Instead, they are stories and practices that emerge from a relationship with the world (both this-world and the otherworlds). Because Paganism is rooted in the here and now, it adapts itself readily to change and is often syncretic. The idea of exclusivism, or that there is only one true path or religion, is foreign to Paganism. Similarly, dualism is either absent or weak in Pagan religions, whether it be the good-vs-evil dualism or spirit-matter dualism.

It should be noted that Neopaganism is a subset of Paganism, and I don't tend to use the terms synonymously. Neopaganism for instance often has much less of a locality-oriented focus than indigenous/ancient Pagan religions, but some of this has to do with the fact that we live in the information age and have access to things that defy local origins and borders. It should also be noted this isn't the only way one can define Paganism, but I find it a useful model. I dislike definitions that define it in the negative - what it is not - because that really isn't useful. Much of the list is inspired by this book (google books link), along with a few other more academic-style authorities on Paganism (notably Greenwood, Clifton, and Adler).

 

[Rowan Welch]

So, what I'm getting from this is that we're just going to talk about foods?

 

[Anonimus2]

Holly cow are we guest now? Well, then I'd like some wine, lol. It's nice to see other Pagan people out there, but who's the guest? Oh, wait, you are? Well come in, want something? Cake, milk, honey, lemon, wine? In my religion hospitality is very holly.