Augustus
…
It was noted that certain unsupported myths regarding Easter were falsehoods.
No evidence was offered for why the myths should be viewed as the real origins in the first place.
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The Paganisation of Christianity
- Thread starter ronki23
- Start date
It was noted that certain unsupported myths regarding Easter were falsehoods.
No evidence was offered for why the myths should be viewed as the real origins in the first place.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I remember some being denied but I do not remember any refutations.
Augustus
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You really need it explained why Eostre had nothing to do with the origin of Easter? (except perhaps on a word in 2 languages in places that had no impact on early Christianity)
Altfish
Veteran Member
Why then is JC's birthday celebrated in December?
Most evidence points to other times of the year - mainly based on "The Star of Bethlehem" and astronomical evidence.
Augustus
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Probably because it is 9 months after the Annunciation on 25 March.
Much longer explanation here with sources: Christmas 25 Dec: Scholarly views
Altfish
Veteran Member
Augustus
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Really, why not 10-months after or 7 months before!
Why are babies not born 7 months before conception?
Well, if a mummy and a daddy love each other very much, then they do something special and 9 months later you get a baby brother
As usual though, an out of hand simply a dismissal of actual scholarship to maintain a feel good myth. Never saw that one coming
As I said: for some reason, western "rationalists" become the most credulous, anti-intellectual suckers on anything that makes Christianity seem bad or illegitimate and will refuse to even consider any actual scholarship by actual experts.
Thank you for proving my point.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Clutching at straws comes to mind.Why are babies not born 7 months before conception?
Well, if a mummy and a daddy love each other very much, then they do something special and 9 months later you get a baby brother
As usual though, an out of hand simply a dismissal of actual scholarship to maintain a feel good myth. Never saw that one coming
As I said: for some reason, western "rationalists" become the most credulous, anti-intellectual suckers on anything that makes Christianity seem bad or illegitimate and will refuse to even consider any actual scholarship by actual experts.
Thank you for proving my point.
I thought god was the father - I need to celebrate my conceiving day - must have a word with mum and dad and check when they had sex in 1954
Augustus
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Jesus wept.
The point is why did early Christians come to celebrate Christmas on 25 Dec, not when was the actual Jesus was actually born in real life. This is secular academic history.
But as you just want to believe they "stole it from the pagans" you dismiss actual secular scholarship out of hand.
Then you will change threads and mock religious folk, Brexiteers, etc for credulously believing any old nonsense that makes them feel good
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No. I was never terribly impressed by that one. It is interesting that you picked the easiest to refute, but not the far more difficult ones. For example Christmas being held on the 25th of December when the Bible does not even describe that as the season. Some of the traditions that we have are pagan in origin. Christmas trees, Eater eggs, forget the pitiful word play argument. There are others. And in the New World the Catholic church often used the same strategy with natives. They would let the traditional holidays stand of various peoples, they would merely try to give them a Christian base.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
If one uses the word "steal" that is a bit too strong. Did they co-opt it? Yes. Does it have a pagan base? Yes. Other then the terrible name of Easter argument and some of the terminology used it appears that you agree with the principle of the thread.Jesus wept.
The point is why did early Christians come to celebrate Christmas on 25 Dec, not when was the actual Jesus was actually born in real life. This is secular academic history.
But as you just want to believe they "stole it from the pagans" you dismiss actual secular scholarship out of hand.
Then you will change threads and mock religious folk, Brexiteers, etc for credulously believing any old nonsense that makes them feel good
They didn't tell you? Perhaps I have weird people around me. I mind my conceiving day too, since it is the day I began to exist.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Goalpost moving. OKJesus wept.
The point is why did early Christians come to celebrate Christmas on 25 Dec, not when was the actual Jesus was actually born in real life. This is secular academic history.
But as you just want to believe they "stole it from the pagans" you dismiss actual secular scholarship out of hand.
Then you will change threads and mock religious folk, Brexiteers, etc for credulously believing any old nonsense that makes them feel good
People actually know their conception days?
I have no clue when my youngest two children were conceived.
My oldest... well, I know exactly when, because it was the only time his father and I were 'intimate' that year. (It was an unhappy relationship.)
My mom told me she had a Lunar pregnancy of 280 days and told me the place and day I was conceived. She said that she "felt it" when it happened, I have no idea what that means. My superstitions are highly fueled by this information.
I hope you've had a better time in life since that relationship.
Augustus
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We were discussing the origins of 25 Dec for Christmas.
How could discussing the origins of 25 Dec for Christmas possibly be "goalpost moving"?
As a Secular Humanist, shouldn't you actually value scholarly expertise over feel good myths?
I've heard some women 'know' when it happens. I never did, until lack of monthly occurrences and vomiting began.
My life has been a lot better for everyone since I left that relationship. Thanks for the well wishes.
Augustus
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Are Easter, Christmas and Halloween of pagan origin or significantly influenced by paganism?
No, I do not think that is remotely historically accurate.
Christianity was certainly influenced by "pagan" philosophies like neoplatonism, and the like but the festivals and their trappings are generally organically Christian (even if not Biblical) or just modern inventions.
Why do you think they are?