• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The original Sin

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
Many times i hear about the original Sin...

I would much appreciate understanding it as i fail to seem what is that sin and why is it even considered a sin?

(I know the first actual sin between human to human is Kain.... I'm not talking about that..
I'm talking about the Forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Thanks.
 
I'm talking about the Forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge.

My interpretation would be:

Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil gave humans consciousness and reflexive self-awareness. Other animals just follow their nature and are not capable of 'sin' and can be said to exist in a state of 'innocence'.

The human condition is to have choice, but also awareness of their actions in terms of morality. Lost innocence can never be regained, and the human condition is that we (collectively) will often choose to do 'evil'. We cannot escape from our nature, and so evil will always exist.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Many times i hear about the original Sin...

I would much appreciate understanding it as i fail to seem what is that sin and why is it even considered a sin?

(I know the first actual sin between human to human is Kain.... I'm not talking about that..
I'm talking about the Forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Thanks.
The concept is mainly a Christian one that is largely not found in Judaism. The Christian concept is that all people are born into sin, whereas the Jewish concept is that sin is not inherited since "sin" means "miss the mark". thus how can a new-borne child already have "missed the mark"?

The concept of "original sin" may well have developed in early Christianity, maybe from Paul, to justify the concept that all people need Jesus' "saving grace", but no such concept shows up in the Tanakh.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Many times i hear about the original Sin...

I would much appreciate understanding it as i fail to seem what is that sin and why is it even considered a sin?

(I know the first actual sin between human to human is Kain.... I'm not talking about that..
I'm talking about the Forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Thanks.
God told Adam; "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 2:17) The original sin was when Eve, and then Adam, disobeyed God and purposely ate from the forbidden tree. I believe this tree represented God's right to decide for mankind what is good or bad. Adam and Eve already knew what was bad, for God had told them it would be wrong to eat from that tree. Their disobedience was a grasping for what does not belong to man, moral independence, the ability to decide for themselves what is good or bad.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Many times i hear about the original Sin...

I would much appreciate understanding it as i fail to seem what is that sin and why is it even considered a sin?

(I know the first actual sin between human to human is Kain.... I'm not talking about that..
I'm talking about the Forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Thanks.
Are you asking, what was the sin of eating from the tree of knowledge?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Many times i hear about the original Sin...
I would much appreciate understanding it as i fail to seem what is that sin and why is it even considered a sin?
(I know the first actual sin between human to human is Kain.... I'm not talking about that..
I'm talking about the Forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge.
Thanks.

If a president passes a Law, then when one breaks that Law it is a crime for him.
When a person breaks God's Law it is a sin for him.
How many fruit trees are there on Earth ?_________
Out of all the trees on Earth only one tree belong to God.
By God saying ' do not eat ' from His tree was as if God put up a No trespassing sign on it.
So, the original sin has to do with Satan (as the serpent) telling the first lie that we would Not die if we ate from God's tree.
Both Adam and Eve broke God's Law by eating from God's tree which carried with it the death penalty. You eat, you die.
By Adam stealing from God's tree was as if Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law into people's hands.
Adam set up People Rule as superior to God Rule. As if saying that man can govern better than God can govern us.
Mankind's history has shown that People Rule has failed mankind - Ecclesiastes 8:9
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
Thank you all for your replies.

I Know the actual story...
I Was born Jewish and learned the Tanach...
But my question is more in the sense of trying to understand the Actual Sin...

Was it the act of actually eating the fruit?
Was it even thinking about eating it?
Was it the fact they ate it and lied about it and tried hiding from GOD?
Is it the fact they ate it just because the snake told them to?
Was the snake a test? or a representation of the Devil? Was failing the test the actual sin?

Now.. I Know that one of the strongest arguments about GOD is the freedom of choice...
But if Adam and Eve were only able to choose after eating the fruit (Which gave them consciousness) does that mean that the argument of GOD gave us a freedom of choice was not intentional?
Was it a consequence of first humans failing GOD's test?
Is the actual sin was the fact the Man wanted the freedom of choice and took it without GOD's consent.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
My interpretation would be:

Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil gave humans consciousness and reflexive self-awareness. Other animals just follow their nature and are not capable of 'sin' and can be said to exist in a state of 'innocence'.

The human condition is to have choice, but also awareness of their actions in terms of morality. Lost innocence can never be regained, and the human condition is that we (collectively) will often choose to do 'evil'. We cannot escape from our nature, and so evil will always exist.

So basically you are saying that we are different from animals just because we disobeyed GOD?
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
God told Adam; "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 2:17) The original sin was when Eve, and then Adam, disobeyed God and purposely ate from the forbidden tree. I believe this tree represented God's right to decide for mankind what is good or bad. Adam and Eve already knew what was bad, for God had told them it would be wrong to eat from that tree. Their disobedience was a grasping for what does not belong to man, moral independence, the ability to decide for themselves what is good or bad.
Sounds to me like testing a child...
There you go sweety.. you have EVERYTHING you want... BUT whatever you do.. don't touch this awesome sweet sweet chocolate that is laying on the table...
Geez... i wonder what the kid will do...
And I assume it will be kind of petty to actually blame the kid for eating the chocolate...
It seems like GOD wanted the humans to eat the fruit but didn't want to take responsibility for eat...
I Can imagine GOD's father telling him... BUT I TOLD YOU TO KEEP THEM FROM EATING IT! but dad.. GOD says.. I Told them.. they just didn't listen !
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
If a president passes a Law, then when one breaks that Law it is a crime for him.
When a person breaks God's Law it is a sin for him.
How many fruit trees are there on Earth ?_________
Out of all the trees on Earth only one tree belong to God.
By God saying ' do not eat ' from His tree was as if God put up a No trespassing sign on it.
So, the original sin has to do with Satan (as the serpent) telling the first lie that we would Not die if we ate from God's tree.
Both Adam and Eve broke God's Law by eating from God's tree which carried with it the death penalty. You eat, you die.
By Adam stealing from God's tree was as if Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law into people's hands.
Adam set up People Rule as superior to God Rule. As if saying that man can govern better than God can govern us.
Mankind's history has shown that People Rule has failed mankind - Ecclesiastes 8:9

But i guess that was the whole point of the forbidden fruit wasn't it?
I Mean.. don't put your diamond ring outside in the street and be surprised that someone took it....
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
The primordial sin of Adam is believed by Catholics to have been inordinate love of self; or rather an attempt by the first humans to become gods on our own terms by setting ourselves and our self-centered desires up as the be-all-and-end-all of existence - to the exclusion of the Creator, our fellow human beings and creation itself of which we were meant to be the stewards on behalf of God.

According to Catholic thought, this inordinate love of self is the cause of every sin. Thus the 17th century Roman Catholic mystic Angelus Silesius wrote:


"Naught more than the words "mine and thine"—
(and mark this lesson well)—
Can plunge thee bodily into the jaws of hell

Believing that you yourself are so smart
and understand it all
condemns you to ignore
your ignorance -
this is the meaning of the Fall

Love is like death -
it kills the self-willed Me
it breaks its strangehold
And sets the Spirit free"


Adam and Eve lost that primeval "ignorance" or "innocence" because of inordinate, exclusive self-love when they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Man started to think he could do as he pleased - hurt other human beings, ravage his own body, destroy nature - and the words, "mine" and "me" came into our lexicon - along with division of property, tribe, culture etc.

This decision to choose the 'self' and become inordinately attached too it arose from this primeval loss of original innocence. The tree of knowledge of good and evil is a metaphorical description of this episode, which we believe to have been an actual cognitive development or event in human evolution - albeit not occurring as 'mythically' described (i.e. with talking snakes!). This 'tendency' towards inordinate love of self then passed down ancestrally to all human descendants, in the Christian theological understanding, as an inherited trait/condition.

It required God Himself to become man to redeem us and restore our original purity - the primordial balance between individual man, his Creator, his fellow humans and creation as a whole. In fact it actually requires an entirely "new creation" after death because we messed up so damn badly.

Nothing can liberate us more from the "strange-hold" of the "self-willed Me" in which Adam's sin imprisoned us than the redeeming, sacrificial love of God's Only Son Jesus Christ on the cross - according to our beliefs. For in our understanding, the sacrifice of Christ is the only entirely selfless act in the whole course of human history - the perfect, sinless, wholly innocent one freely willing to die for the sins of the multitude.

Because of this, only by participating in Jesus' sacrificial death and rebirth through baptism and thus sharing in His Sinless Divinity through his perfect humanity can human beings become what they were intended to be in the beginning and become free from the burden of sin - of the "self-willed Me".

Hence why Saint Paul wrote in the Letter to the Romans (chapter 6):

Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life...5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be raised to life as He was. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.


 
Last edited:

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
God told Adam; "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 2:17).

Probably poor Adam thought that dying is cool. It is easy to be confused when you have no clue about what is good or bad.

Ciao

- viole
 
Top