The Original Sin: who is to blame?

[dybmh]

Stereotyping:

"a stereotype is an over-generalized belief about a particular category of people. Stereotypes are generalized because one assumes that the stereotype is true for each individual person in the category.While such generalizations may be useful when making quick decisions, they may be erroneous when applied to particular individuals. Stereotypes encourage prejudice."

hyperlink >>> wikipedia.org - Stereotype

@9-18-1,

This is what is relevant. Stereotyping. You have been doing it repeatedly. It's a pattern. It demonstrates a lack of attention to detail.

And this is what is causing the downfall of humanity. It's the mindset you demonstrate in this thread.

You over simplify
Make assumptions
generalizations
put people in categories of your own choosing
ignore data

it's all childish 1950s black vs. white stereotyping.

And that is why I reply to your threads when I choose to.

It's not to discuss anything with you.

It is simply to use your words and your flawed arguments as an example of textbook stereotyping.

Stereotypes encourage prejudice.

 

[dybmh]

Find me a single Jew who denies Moses was a prophet of god please.

Otherwise this is nonsense and I think you know this.

A perfect example of your **belief**

You "think I know it is".... dude! Of course I can show you... I have data... FACTS, to back up my claims.

hyperlink >>> pewforum.com - Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

And if that's not enough... here's an editorial piece...

hyperlink >>> haaretz.com - You don't need to believe in God to believe in Judaism

"I grew up in a Modern Orthodox community. While the day school I attended was devoutly pluralistic, I was wrapping tefillin (phylacteries), praying three times a day, and keeping strictly kosher. My faith in God was the center of my life and my Judaism. Eight years later, I’m an atheist, but my commitment to Judaism is just as strong."

So:

Care to revise your statement?

Or are you just as guilty of having the "mark of cain" as everyone else who cannot admit when they are wrong?

Even better... do you have any facts to back your claim on who and who is not Jewish?

Are your facts stronger and more convincing than my facts?

No way. I have you out numbered and out maneuvered. I have the high ground.

 

[9-18-1]

I put it on the table. You picked it up.

Only because you tried to play a Joker - not a valid card in this game.

If I think you are a racist I'll let you know directly though.

Would you pm me or try to slander me in public?

At the moment I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and I'm privately putting your ill-advised comments down to a common cognitive distortion called "splitting".

Noted - will be looking for the same in yourself in relation to projection.

Worse, I'm even daring to suspect this about you even though I'm not a qualified psychiatrist. (*gasp*) Its probably in bad taste to tell you that, but hey - I'm a philosopher. What'cha gonna do?

I really like honest people - tell me anything, I won't take offense.

I understand it as a form of idol worship - people with small identities.

So according to you the central claim of Judaism is that Moses received the Torah from YHVH on a mountain? Why is that the central claim of Judaism? Why do you feel that Judaism has or requires a central claim?

No mine - Judaism. We have to understand the 'state' of Israel/Judaism is (at least invariably was) established on the basis that the Torah is the perfect word of god. It was "believed" that even if a single letter were misplaced out of sequence, the creation would collapse. It is "believed" that God used the 22 letters to create all things etc.

The central claim that is important is the "perfection" of the Torah because 1 000 years later the Islamic world would rise, steal a bunch from Judaism and make the same claim about their own book. The original claim started with Judaism and was inherited by Islam.

Much of the Western world is build using the Torah as an "authority" prefacing the rest of the Bible which... even more people "believe" is the perfect word of god.

See the common problem here?

What if we added the element that Moses wasn't even a Hebrew? He was actually an Egyptian? He didn't actually lead an Exodus, but rather got kicked out being allowed to bring his cult of Atun with him? That Akhunatun was re-branded as "Moses" (not even a Hebrew name, but an Egyptian one) etc?

You are a "philosopher" - what are the implications of all of this?

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, there is no potent god behind Judaism/Christianity/Islam. It was all retro-fitted to "justify" the state of Israel.

I dispute you btw, and offer the counter-proposal that the central claim of Judaism (if there is such a thing) is the existence of YHVH, since the worship of YHVH precedes the story of the reception of the Torah on the mount.

Great - I love dissent. Making two one is nothing but fun.

And Allah precedes Islam. Does that mean Allah exists? This isn't an argument at all.

But I'm sure if we canvas opinion, we will soon end up with a diverse list of "central claims" that could all apply nicely to Judaism, so my question stands: Why do you feel that Judaism has or requires a central claim?

Does Judaism claim there is only one god - blessed be he? That's a claim.

Unfortunately for us, Christianity makes the same claim for itself.
Unfortunately for us again, Islam makes the same claim for itself.

If they all claim there is only one god - why are there three different religions worshiping one? Is this what god has in mind?

Do they really? Perhaps what you think is literally true is just normal hyperbole? How do you tell the difference between them?

Hyperbole - Wikipedia

I treat the Torah has completely mythological - with a butchered semblance of real history, but modified/adapted to help justify Israel. I don't take anything in it literally.

In fact, I don't even read the narrative associated with it at all. That is like a garment over what is actually written.

So you think most people aren't sophisticated enough to understand the concept of divine inspiration? Or that two things or more can be true at the same time? Maybe you're projecting?

It is true that two things can be true despite appearing diametrically opposed. That is kind of how the physically manifest world works - illusion of two, reality of one.

That is why there are two physical eyes and one "third" eye. They reflect binah (understanding) being able to see the simultaneous truths (chokmah) and making them into one (keser): an endless process that leads to aur ein soph: it is equivalent to the truth of the way of life statement from Jesus.

Life = Binah / YHVH Elohim (unity-duality-plurality)
Way = Chokmah / YHVH (unity-duality)
LIFE = Keser / Ehyeh (ha'ya) (unity) - I AM

What did god tell Moses to tell his people? Who sent him? 'I am'. Not 'I am that I am' sent you, simply 'I am'.

'I am' is the basis of all consciousness (Brahma). Everything else beyond this is self-adopted identity: I am... a Jew, a Christian, a Muslim, an atheist, an (a?)gnostic, a philosopher, a victim, a persecuted one, a superior one, a "believer" who "believes" that book x and idol y are infallible etc.

The intellect only functions based on the identity to protect it: hence "taking offense" being a clear sign of small identity syndrome. Same thing as idol worship: you're offensive! You're hurting my feelings! You're talking hate speech! Don't insult our prophet!

Idol worshipers - hundreds of millions dead over this small identity idol worship nonsense. Speaking of which..

Oh, I think if you really want to find backwards mentality its pretty much present everywhere in the world and in every community, but its not the only flavour of sauce in town nor even the most numerous.

None like Jud-Islam: it is the Canaanite scapegoating mentality. Here is a philosophical view that happens to explain why WW3 is about to happen. It is my own finding: Torah helped me see it (ironically):

Things like hatred, resentment, envy, enmity, superiority complex, perpetual victimhood mentality etc. require objects/targets. For example, if a Muslims "feels" they are a victim (ie. identifies as one - remember the intellect functions around the identity), they will always be looking for the source of their own suffering.

Suppose the Qur'an is man-made (as it actually is) but the Muslim "believes" it is from god (it is not) and the leaders of Islam indoctrinate Muslims at a young age to "believe" otherwise they are going to burn in hell for eternity. So the Muslim has fear (of nothing that actually exists) their entire lives.

Now suppose:

-Muslim "believes" Qur'an is from god (it is not).
-Muslim "believes" Sharia must replace all existing laws (requiring jihad).
-Muslim is fighting to install 7th century man-made laws "believing" they came from god, to replace 21st century man-made laws which reflect 13 centuries of human advancement.
-As much as 690 000 000 people are dead as a result of Islamic jihad.
-Islam is presently commencing a global jihad as we speak on all fronts non-military.
-The same Nazi fascism that rose in Germany is being replicated globally: antisemitic parties pushing Jew/white hatred. These are Islam's greatest enemies because most literature that accurately captures the true nature of Islam is from secular societies.

What do you think is going to cause WW3? Where is all of this leading? Why is Islam so male-centric? Why were Muhammad and Hitler so similar re: hatred for Jews? Were they both central male dictators? Where is Jew hatred coming from? Who do Muslims consistently blame for almost everything? What M/E democracy do "Palestinians" want to wipe off the face of the planet? If Islam means "peace", how has it been divided internally for 1400 years? What happened at the death of Muhammad? What happened to North Africa and India? What happened to Europe? etc. etc. etc.

Same problem: Islam - using "Islamophobia" as a charge against anyone who criticizes Islam. Women being raped all over the place - Islamic presence/ownership in media networks are being gagged citing "racism" and "sowing discord" etc. All fascism, fascism, fascism and it is getting worse.

And most of humanity is still asleep - not realizing the problem. It's in Torah: man blames woman for his own iniquity.

Look at women in Islam. Who is blamed for being raped? Why do men blame women for enticing a man? Who is supposed to govern their own sexual behavior? Why are women responsible for how men act? How many wives did Muhammad have? How old was A'isha when Muhammad had sex with her? How many female poets did Muhammad execute for calling out his hypocrisy?

Why do political warlord dictators like Justin Trudeau in Canada get picked up by Islam and start installing Sharia? Why does he silence/gag women from speaking out against him? See any patterns here?

C'est la vie - humanity chooses this stupidity.

 

[dybmh]

Only because you tried to play a Joker - not a valid card in this game.



Would you pm me or try to slander me in public?



Noted - will be looking for the same in yourself in relation to projection.



I really like honest people - tell me anything, I won't take offense.

I understand it as a form of idol worship - people with small identities.



No mine - Judaism. We have to understand the 'state' of Israel/Judaism is (at least invariably was) established on the basis that the Torah is the perfect word of god. It was "believed" that even if a single letter were misplaced out of sequence, the creation would collapse. It is "believed" that God used the 22 letters to create all things etc.

The central claim that is important is the "perfection" of the Torah because 1 000 years later the Islamic world would rise, steal a bunch from Judaism and make the same claim about their own book. The original claim started with Judaism and was inherited by Islam.

Much of the Western world is build using the Torah as an "authority" prefacing the rest of the Bible which... even more people "believe" is the perfect word of god.

See the common problem here?

What if we added the element that Moses wasn't even a Hebrew? He was actually an Egyptian? He didn't actually lead an Exodus, but rather got kicked out being allowed to bring his cult of Atun with him? That Akhunatun was re-branded as "Moses" (not even a Hebrew name, but an Egyptian one) etc?

You are a "philosopher" - what are the implications of all of this?

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, there is no potent god behind Judaism/Christianity/Islam. It was all retro-fitted to "justify" the state of Israel.



Great - I love dissent. Making two one is nothing but fun.

And Allah precedes Islam. Does that mean Allah exists? This isn't an argument at all.



Does Judaism claim there is only one god - blessed be he? That's a claim.

Unfortunately for us, Christianity makes the same claim for itself.
Unfortunately for us again, Islam makes the same claim for itself.

If they all claim there is only one god - why are there three different religions worshiping one? Is this what god has in mind?


Hyperbole - Wikipedia

I treat the Torah has completely mythological - with a butchered semblance of real history, but modified/adapted to help justify Israel. I don't take anything in it literally.

In fact, I don't even read the narrative associated with it at all. That is like a garment over what is actually written.



It is true that two things can be true despite appearing diametrically opposed. That is kind of how the physically manifest world works - illusion of two, reality of one.

That is why there are two physical eyes and one "third" eye. They reflect binah (understanding) being able to see the simultaneous truths (chokmah) and making them into one (keser): an endless process that leads to aur ein soph: it is equivalent to the truth of the way of life statement from Jesus.

Life = Binah / YHVH Elohim (unity-duality-plurality)
Way = Chokmah / YHVH (unity-duality)
LIFE = Keser / Ehyeh (ha'ya) (unity) - I AM

What did god tell Moses to tell his people? Who sent him? 'I am'. Not 'I am that I am' sent you, simply 'I am'.

'I am' is the basis of all consciousness (Brahma). Everything else beyond this is self-adopted identity: I am... a Jew, a Christian, a Muslim, an atheist, an (a?)gnostic, a philosopher, a victim, a persecuted one, a superior one, a "believer" who "believes" that book x and idol y are infallible etc.

The intellect only functions based on the identity to protect it: hence "taking offense" being a clear sign of small identity syndrome. Same thing as idol worship: you're offensive! You're hurting my feelings! You're talking hate speech! Don't insult our prophet!

Idol worshipers - hundreds of millions dead over this small identity idol worship nonsense. Speaking of which..



None like Jud-Islam: it is the Canaanite scapegoating mentality. Here is a philosophical view that happens to explain why WW3 is about to happen. It is my own finding: Torah helped me see it (ironically):

Things like hatred, resentment, envy, enmity, superiority complex, perpetual victimhood mentality etc. require objects/targets. For example, if a Muslims "feels" they are a victim (ie. identifies as one - remember the intellect functions around the identity), they will always be looking for the source of their own suffering.

Suppose the Qur'an is man-made (as it actually is) but the Muslim "believes" it is from god (it is not) and the leaders of Islam indoctrinate Muslims at a young age to "believe" otherwise they are going to burn in hell for eternity. So the Muslim has fear (of nothing that actually exists) their entire lives.

Now suppose:

-Muslim "believes" Qur'an is from god (it is not).
-Muslim "believes" Sharia must replace all existing laws (requiring jihad).
-Muslim is fighting to install 7th century man-made laws "believing" they came from god, to replace 21st century man-made laws which reflect 13 centuries of human advancement.
-As much as 690 000 000 people are dead as a result of Islamic jihad.
-Islam is presently commencing a global jihad as we speak on all fronts non-military.
-The same Nazi fascism that rose in Germany is being replicated globally: antisemitic parties pushing Jew/white hatred. These are Islam's greatest enemies because most literature that accurately captures the true nature of Islam is from secular societies.

What do you think is going to cause WW3? Where is all of this leading? Why is Islam so male-centric? Why were Muhammad and Hitler so similar re: hatred for Jews? Were they both central male dictators? Where is Jew hatred coming from? Who do Muslims consistently blame for almost everything? What M/E democracy do "Palestinians" want to wipe off the face of the planet? If Islam means "peace", how has it been divided internally for 1400 years? What happened at the death of Muhammad? What happened to North Africa and India? What happened to Europe? etc. etc. etc.

Same problem: Islam - using "Islamophobia" as a charge against anyone who criticizes Islam. Women being raped all over the place - Islamic presence/ownership in media networks are being gagged citing "racism" and "sowing discord" etc. All fascism, fascism, fascism and it is getting worse.

And most of humanity is still asleep - not realizing the problem. It's in Torah: man blames woman for his own iniquity.

Look at women in Islam. Who is blamed for being raped? Why do men blame women for enticing a man? Who is supposed to govern their own sexual behavior? Why are women responsible for how men act? How many wives did Muhammad have? How old was A'isha when Muhammad had sex with her? How many female poets did Muhammad execute for calling out his hypocrisy?

Why do political warlord dictators like Justin Trudeau in Canada get picked up by Islam and start installing Sharia? Why does he silence/gag women from speaking out against him? See any patterns here?

C'est la vie - humanity chooses this stupidity.

@9-18-1,

You are doing it again... lack of attention to detail... you are misquoting. The links in your reply don't point to the appropriate text.

I don't think I ever said this: "If I think you are a racist I'll let you know directly though."

Or virtually any of that stuff...

Last time, you inaccurately quoted @dfnj ... now you are misquoting me...

Dude... you are really showing the lack of quality of your writing...

please... if you want to have a real debate, we can start over in a new thread.

OK?

This particular thread is spoiled.

 

[9-18-1]

Stereotyping:

"a stereotype is an over-generalized belief about a particular category of people. Stereotypes are generalized because one assumes that the stereotype is true for each individual person in the category.While such generalizations may be useful when making quick decisions, they may be erroneous when applied to particular individuals. Stereotypes encourage prejudice."

Judaism/Christianity/Islam are not "people" - they are ideologies.

Also it is the other way around: prejudice encourages stereotypes. I am not surprised toget that backwards to paint yourself as a victim.

There is nothing wrong with being a Jew. Stop taking offense to it.

hyperlink >>> wikipedia.org - Stereotype

@9-18-1,

This is what is relevant. Stereotyping. You have been doing it repeatedly. It's a pattern. It demonstrates a lack of attention to detail.

Projecting: you feel personally attacked (and have) ever since I said "here comes the Jew". What is wrong with Jews? Nothing.

Judaism has problems.

And this is what is causing the downfall of humanity. It's the mindset you demonstrate in this thread.

It is projection again - you seem just completely set off by the comment. If you don't like what I am saying, leave the thread?

You over simplify
Make assumptions
generalizations
put people in categories of your own choosing
ignore data

You're the one making this personal - not me. You're directing everything at a person: you, you, you, you, you, you, you etc.

You're like... obsessed. Stop making it personal? Are you capable?

it's all childish 1950s black vs. white stereotyping.

Judaism is not people.

And that is why I reply to your threads when I choose to.

I don't mind - it has a reverse effect.

It's not to discuss anything with you.

It is to attack me - as this is your entire focus. You, you, you, you, you, you, you etc.

It is simply to use your words and your flawed arguments as an example of textbook stereotyping.

You misused it. Not sure what textbook you are reading - the textbook of whenever dybmh is offended for being correctly denoted a Jew, accuse of prejudice.

This is the same illness in Islam - always being picked on! In reality, you're picking on me. You, you, you, you, you etc. Any more?

Stereotypes encourage prejudice

.

Prejudice encourages stereotypes. You're still backwards.

A perfect example of your **belief**

You "think I know it is".... dude! Of course I can show you... I have data... FACTS, to back up my claims.

hyperlink >>> pewforum.com - Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

And if that's not enough... here's an editorial piece...

hyperlink >>> haaretz.com - You don't need to believe in God to believe in Judaism

"I grew up in a Modern Orthodox community. While the day school I attended was devoutly pluralistic, I was wrapping tefillin (phylacteries), praying three times a day, and keeping strictly kosher. My faith in God was the center of my life and my Judaism. Eight years later, I’m an atheist, but my commitment to Judaism is just as strong."

Facts to back up... what claims? Lol you just posted a bunch of completely irrelevant facts that have nothing to do with anything being discussed here.

The topic is: multiple religions "believe" they are in possession of the perfect word of god. Both are false. No race/stereotype is involved until others start taking offense.

So:

Care to revise your statement?

No: you're acting like a child and this is your own nonsense. You're attacking me personally accusing me of something I never made an issue until you did.

You took offense to the Jew comment, and this is what all of this is based on. You are a Jew, yes? So what? Why are you offended? Because you read something into it? Perhaps that there is a latent anti-Jewish sentiment growing in the world?

I'm the least of your concerns... look at Islam. You will find the Jew hatred in the Qur'an, along with Muhammad committing genocide against them... not to mention Adolph Hitler.

But no... I am what is wrong with the world! Not Muhammad or Hitler, me! For saying "here comes the Jew". You, you, you, you, you, you etc.

This is your own problem - you're acting like a child.

Or are you just as guilty of having the "mark of cain" as everyone else who cannot admit when they are wrong?

Stop trying to scapegoat me... whatever internal issues you are having, they are your problem, not mine. I take responsibility for my own internal state, you take care of yours.

If you allow others to affect your own internal state of being, that is your own problem.

Even better... do you have any facts to back your claim on who and who is not Jewish?

I don't care about who is or is not Jewish - I care about the institution of Judaism based on a false assertion... because Islam is based on the same false assertion and hundreds of millions are dead AND... another genocide is being plotted against Jews. I don't want that to happen, and I'm sure you do not too.

But for you to treat your own personal feelings as the most important thing even beside the global conflict, that is really narrow.

I think you need to clear your head.

Are your facts stronger and more convincing than my facts?

Facts are not the same as truths. Your "facts" have nothing to do with this thread.

No way. I have you out numbered and out maneuvered. I have the high ground.

Lol what is this, a war? You are waging war against me? More you, you, you, you etc.

Do you realize this is the same Canaanite enmity desire to spill blood (if even figuratively)? It is very funny that you should mention the mark and then wage a war LOL. Can you seriously not see what you are doing here? I don't want to fight anyone - but I also don't want people to try to project their own stupidity on me because I'll not have that.

You do have problems - really sensitive nerve.

No worries - there is nothing wrong with being a Jew. You will not have many Muslims tell you the same, however. I think you might want to worry about the people who actually want to kill Jews for the sake of them being a Jew.

I want the bloodshed on the planet to end. You're taking up a war-like mentality. I'm completely calm. Just take a few minutes and clear your head.

 

[dybmh]

@9-18-1,

please note: each and everyone of these claims... I did not say any of them. It makes one really wonder about what other Facts are twisted around in your threads.

I pointed this out to you in your recent thread about Gender. And it seems you ignored the correction.

Why am I not surprised?

What are some clues that you should have noticed that I was not the one who wrote those posts:

1) I don't spell flavor with a "u"
2) The writing style... not me at all
3) I never, ever... spell out G-d's name Y...H...V... you know that...

But... ya know... like I said. You really need to go back to the drawing board and start over in a new thread.

Here's all the misquotes for the record:

 

[9-18-1]

@9-18-1,

You are doing it again... lack of attention to detail... you are misquoting. The links in your reply don't point to the appropriate text.

You, you, you, you etc.

Oh no, mistakes on an internet forum! Biggest deal ever!

I don't think I ever said this: "If I think you are a racist I'll let you know directly though."

Sorry, will correct.

Or virtually any of that stuff...

Suppose I did it to see if it triggered you and see if you'd pick up and use it against me.

You did - oh poor me,more you, you, you, you.

Last time, you inaccurately quoted @dfnj ... now you are misquoting me...

Sorry, will correct.

Dude... you are really showing the lack of quality of your writing...

You, you, you, you, attack, attack, attack, attack etc. lol

Eye of the beholder.

please... if you want to have a real debate, we can start over in a new thread.

OK?

This particular thread is spoiled.

No thanks, at least not until you drop the enmity and war-like mentality - but you are free to leave.

Good day!

 

[dybmh]

Judaism/Christianity/Islam are not "people" - they are ideologies.

You said point out 1 person. I pointed out so so many.

Try again... fail.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

No mine - Judaism. We have to understand the 'state' of Israel/Judaism is (at least invariably was) established on the basis that the Torah is the perfect word of god.

I understand that you understand it that way, but I'd like some evidence. Does it say that in the Israeli constitution? On what basis do you assert that the state of Israel was established on the infallibility of the Torah?

 

[dybmh]

No thanks, at least not until you drop the enmity and war-like mentality - but you are free to leave.

You have exposed your low quality research. You have exposed your over-generalized over simplified world view.
You have no credibility left.

Your writing and research has been criticized by all manner of people from across the spectrum of belief and non-belief.

It's def not war.

It's defeat. You lost.

But if you want to try again, feel free to start a new thread.

 

[9-18-1]

@9-18-1,

please note: each and everyone of these claims... I did not say any of them. It makes one really wonder about what other Facts are twisted around in your threads.

I pointed this out to you in your recent thread about Gender. And it seems you ignored the correction.

Honest mistake mate.

Why am I not surprised?

Because you're trying to exploit it to slander me generally. You, you, you, you etc.

What are some clues that you should have noticed that I was not the one who wrote those posts:

1) I don't spell flavor with a "u"
2) The writing style... not me at all
3) I never, ever... spell out G-d's name Y...H...V... you know that...

Dude I think you have paranoid schizophrenia or something. Not a doctor, but you seem like everyone is out to get you.

But... ya know... like I said. You really need to go back to the drawing board and start over in a new thread.

...or you can just leave and enjoy your day?

 

[dybmh]

Because you're trying to exploit it to slander me generally

1) I pointed out how you were repeatedly misquoting in a PM the last time you did it in your thread about Gender. I did it politely and in private. And you ignored it.

2) It's not slander. Slander is a false claim.

I am pointing out the truth. I am pointing out a fact. It is not slander.

You have misquoted me and others multiple times.

I was very kind about it the first time. Much much kinder than you were to me. If you want to keep pushing back on this point I can go get the link to the tread and bring it here.

The thing is... your misquoting and mis-information campaign is ongoing against Islam. it's not just about me.

You have been presenting the **UnSubstantiated Rumor** about Muhammad and the 8 year old wife as fact.

I pointed out that it was a Rumor. Another Muslim poster confirmed it. You ignored the Data in favor of **Your Belief** that is is true.

The fact is that many many Muslims do not agree that Muhammad had a physical relationship with a girl that young.

But you trot out your talking point anyway. Why? because you believe it.

That is all it is.

Your belief... presented in a thread discouraging belief.

Textbook Hypocrisy.

But it doesn't take all this evidence.

Most everyone seems to have realized it right away. It's obvious.

Reading your threads is like looking at a bright blinking neon sign that says, "I believe...".

I think you are actually the last one to realize it. And I was nice to you.

A lot nicer than you were to me.

You cannot deny it honestly.

 

[9-18-1]

I understand that you understand it that way, but I'd like some evidence. Does it say that in the Israeli constitution? On what basis do you assert that the state of Israel was established on the infallibility of the Torah?

Sorry to clarify I was not talking about the geographical state of Israel - I don't consider that Israel, but the 'state' which is defined by everything as having derived by Torah - it having been allegedly created prior to the making of the world. This is the same general imagination that eventually Islam adopted re: there being a perfectly preserved Qur'an in heaven.

You have exposed your low quality research. You have exposed your over-generalized over simplified world view.
You have no credibility left.

Projection again - you can't lay off the ad hominem. You feel threatened and need to appear strong / victorious etc. really pathetic complex going on here. It's actually sad to read.

Your writing and research has been criticized by all manner of people from across the spectrum of belief and non-belief.

I love criticism - but ultimately I don't care how others perceive it, more like that people are discussing. "Belief" is not a virtue anyways.

It's def not war.

Dude you're going on attacking me like - it's like you feel threatened or something. Nobody is threatening you - you're just a bit nuts right now with this you, you, you etc.

It's defeat. You lost.

I surrender! You are victorious!

Let the record show, dybmh beat me on an internet forum.

But if you want to try again, feel free to start a new thread.

I think you need a time out first - go and calm down maybe.

6 x you that time. More ad hominem, or will you put it to rest?

 

[dybmh]

Google definition of slander:

"the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

@9-18-1 ,

I think we're done here... you have made too many false claims...

 

[dybmh]

6 x you that time. More ad hominem, or will you put it to rest?

1) You opened the door to ad hominem when you started your reply to my post with "Oh boy, here comes the Jew."
2) Please refer to the diagram below. I have started at the higher end of the pyramid and now... I have worked my way down.
3) You on the other hand started at the low end... name calling ( aka labeling ).
4) Notice that making false claims aren't even on the list. They would be below the pyramid.

Taken together... your name calling tactic, your own ad hominem, and all those false claims:

your arguments never even got off the ground towards proving your point.

Again... massive fail.

But feel free to try again in another thread.

hyperlink >>> wikipedia.org - Ad hominem

 

[9-18-1]

I pointed it out to you in a PM the last time you did it in your thread about Gender. And you ignored it.

Slander is a false claim.

I am pointing out the truth. I am pointing out a fact. It is not slander.

You have misquoted me and others multiple times.

I was very kind about it the first time. Much much kinder than you were to me. If you want to keep pushing back on this point I can go get the link to the tread and bring it here.

The thing is... your misquoting and mis-information campaign is ongoing against Islam. it's not just about me.

Oh, okay.

You have been presenting the **UnSubstantiated Rumor** about Muhammad and the 8 year old wife as fact.

LOL!

It's in the Islamic hadith literature. They use this marriage (it is 6 years old btw) as a precedent for child marriage. It is also documented in Islamic hadith literature that the marriage was consummated at the age of nine. Not my claim: in their literature.

I pointed out that it was a Rumor. Another Muslim poster confirmed it. You ignored the Data in favor of **Your Belief** that is is true.

What the hell is a Rumor? Are you talking about the hadith literature? I didn't write it... it is in there.

The fact is that many many Muslims do not agree that Muhammad had a physical relationship with a girl that young.

Irrelevant - still a precedent in Islam.

But you trot out your talking point anyway. Why? because you believe it.

No... some Muslims "believe" it and use it as a precedent for pedophilia and child marriage.

That is all it is.

Exactly... nothing.

Your belief... presented in a thread discouraging belief.

Because it is not a virtue - it makes (some) people absolutely insane.

Textbook Hypocrisy.

lol

But it doesn't take all this evidence.

What evidence?

Most everyone seems to have realized it right away. It's obvious.

Virtue signalling - persuading a public opinion against me. It's okay - I forgive you.

Is this where the Muhammadans learned it from? All of this warfare nonsense of polarizing others against a single target?

Reading your threads is like looking at a bright blinking neon sign that says, "I believe...".

Then don't read them. Besides, you're just trying to attack me personally now anyways.

I think you are actually the last one to realize it. And I was nice to you.

Why so personal? I was nice to you, until I found the mark.

A lot nicer than you were to me.

See this is personal - how about we hug and make up?

You cannot deny it honestly.

I don't deny it... I also don't deny not having patience for people who do nothing but attack me personally. All based on one comment "here comes the Jew".

That was the match on the gasoline lol. You're really, really sensitive about that, aren't you? I told you, there is nothing wrong with being a Jew, I don't hate Jews, or Christians, or Muslims, or anyone for who/what they are or even "believe" - but I will absolutely criticize bad ideas and demonstrably false "beliefs" without a care in the world for other people's "feelings". The truth isn't polarizes - it just is.

Friends?

 

[shunyadragon]

The entire persecution against Jews began with Muhammad. The entire global antisemitic problem starts with Muhammad.

Not true, because the persecution of Jews began in the 4th Century in the conflicts between Judaism and Christianity.

From: THE PERSECUTION OF THE JEWS IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE (300-438)

From the study just concluded it should be apparent that the Jews in the Roman Empire experienced a series of misfortunes during the fourth century which reduced them from privileged citizenship to oppressed exile. These misfortunes occurred mainly as the result of Christian animosity, propaganda, and persecution.

The fourth century was the age of the great conflict between the church and the synagogue. The church fathers from Eusebius to Augustine tried to show that the Jews were wicked and depraved monsters, fit only to be an evil and eternal example to pious Christians. "The Jew" became a fearsome theological abstraction to suit the propaganda purposes of the victorious church. The anti-Semitic propaganda of the church leaders gradually spread to their flocks, and the Christian record was marred by atrocities against the Jews from the middle of the fourth century on: typical acts of violence were the forced conversions on Minorca, the destruction of the synagogue at Callinicum, the massacre at Edessa, and the expulsion of the Jews from Alexandria. Under pressure from Christian zealots, the imperial administration gradually succumbed to the rising tide of anti-Jewish feeling. The Theodosian Code shows us that a series of Roman laws gradually stripped away the privileges of the Jews during the late fourth and early fifth centuries finally assuring the persecuted race only the minimum civic rights. The Jews were forbidden to own Christian slaves. The building or repairing of synagogues was banned. Constantine forced the Jews to accept the burden of the decurionate, and Constantius confiscated the property of converts to Judaism. Gratian later deprived converts of testamentary rights. Theodosius the Great equated marrying a Jew or Jewess with adultery, and further allowed the Jews themselves to marry only according to the Christian Table of Affinity. Honorius then excluded Jesus from military and political functions. His co-emperor, Arcadius, degraded the Jewish patriarch, Gamaliel, on a flimsy pretext, and confiscated his tax, the aurum coronarium, thus disrupting forever the empire-wide organization of Jewry. Finally Theodosius II summed up all this anti-Jewish legislation in his Novella III, crystallizing in bombast and elaborate verbiage all the orthodox sentiments of the pious Roman emperors of the late fourth and early fifth centuries.

Many of these laws were embodied in canons by the ecclesiastical contemporaries of the imperial legislators and later passed into the tradition of western Europe by way of the church in the great collections of canons which were made during the Carolingian Age. The canons of the church councils of the fourth century helped make anti-Jewish sentiments traditional in the Christian church. The Spanish Council of Elvira early in the fourth century forbade intermarriage between Jews and Christians. It also provided that neither cleric nor layman should accept Jewish hospitality. The Forged Canons of Nicaeadeal with the same matters as those of Elvira, adding only a prohibition against Jewish circumcision of Christians. The Councils of Antioch and Laodicaea forbade "Judaizing," and the Apostolic Canons ordered Christians not to deny their faith from fear of Jews and heretics. The effect of this body of religious legislation coupled with the Theodosian laws was disastrous to Jewry. The church canons and the Theodosian laws together officially stamped the mark of Cain on the Jews, and permanently separated them socially and economically from their fellow Roman citizens.

When Rome gave way to the Germanic kingdoms of the West the anti-Jewish laws of the Theodosian Code were embodied in the barbarian codes, and the Jews remained outcasts in an unfriendly world throughout western Europe. As the cities decayed many of them became wandering traders, and others migrated eastward to seek new and happier homes. A haven of refuge in Spain and Africa was created for the Jews by the Moslems in the seventh and eighth centuries. There the Jews prospered as merchants and scholars under the protection of Islam. Ibn Gebirol, Jehuda Halevi, and Moses Maimonides produced some of Judaism's greatest works. As the cities began to revive in western Europe during the eleventh and twelfth centuries Jewish communities formed in them, but with the Jews always separate and inferior to the Christians, and really outside the protection of the Christian law. When the passions of the First Crusade were aroused in 1095 the Jews were among the first to feel

the fury, and community after community of Jewish merchants, artisans, and traders was robbed and massacred by the Frankish knights and their hordes of followers as they passed down the Rhine and Danube on their way to Constantinople. Again the Jews suffered when the crusaders under Conrad marched east on the Second Crusade in i 146. All the old sophistries were once more employed. Peter of Cluny wrote, "Do not slay them, God does not want to annihilate them. . . . They are dependent, miserable, and terror-stricken, and must remain in that state until they are converted to the Saviour. You ought not to kill them but to afflict them in a manner befitting their baseness."241 Here is Augustine's theory of the position of the Jew repeated to justify pillage in the twelfth century! Early in the thirteenth century the Jews of Italy and France were involved in the downfall of the Cathari during the Albigensian Crusade. Innocent III called the famous Fourth Lateran Council in 1215, and by canon law the Jews were forbidden all honors or offices, forced to dwell in restricted areas the ghettos of the cities, and compelled to wear the degrading Jew badge which set them apart from all their neighbors and caused a general loss of self-respect among the Jews of western Europe. As the national monarchies grew in power the kings who ruled them turned greedy eyes upon the wealth of this unprotected class, just as the crusaders had done in the eleventh and twelfth centuries. Edward I of England was the first to despoil them of their property and expel them from England. This was done in 1287 on theological grounds, and Philip IV, the Fair, of France followed his lead in 1306.

Then in 1348 the calamity of the Black Death fell upon Europe, and the Swiss, Germans, and others looked for a scapegoat for their terror. The hapless Jews were the logical suspects, and it was asserted that they had poisoned the wells of Europe and thus had caused the plague. Thousands were tortured and slain in hideous massacres all over Europe. In view of the brutal treatment that the Jews had received in Christian lands during medieval times, it was no wonder that the Spanish Jews had usually sided with Islam in the great wars which Moslem and Christian had waged in the Iberian peninsula, 1000-1492.

 

[9-18-1]

1) You opened the door to ad hominem when you started your reply to my post with "Oh boy, here comes the Jew."

Lol... that is your reasoning to go on and on and on?

You are a Jew. There is nothing wrong with being a Jew.

You have been attacking me ever since.

2) Please refer to the diagram below. I have started at the higher end of the pyramid and now... I have worked my way down.

You haven't refuted any point.

3) You on the other hand started at the low end... name calling ( aka labeling ).

You are a Jew. There is nothing wrong with being a Jew.

You have been attacking me ever since.

4) Notice that making false claims aren't even on the list. They would be below the pyramid.

Right... and you being a Jew is not a false claim, whence you started all of this petty nonsense. It's amusing because it is 100% projection on your part. You just keep getting more and more worked up, like an uncontrollable compulsion.

Taken together... your name calling tactic, your own ad hominem, and all those false claims:

You, you, you, you, you...

your arguments never even got off the ground towards proving your point.

You, you, you, you, you...

Again... massive fail.

If only you knew.

But feel free to try again in another thread.

hyperlink >>> wikipedia.org - Ad hominem

Well first you took "Jew" to be name-calling, when, in fact, you are a Jew, and there is nothing wrong with that.

You are presently in ad hominem: you, you, you, you, you etc.

But thanks for the graphic - might come in handy.

It was actually you that started from the bottom and worked up, based on your taking offense to be called a Jew, despite there being nothing wrong with being a Jew.

It's very interesting, though... I am as intrigued as I am fascinated.

Here is another triangle from www.meru.org

 

[dybmh]

What the hell is a Rumor? Are you talking about the hadith literature?

Yes, as was pointed out to you in your own thread on: "Was Moses Even a Hebrew"

hyperlink >>> religiousforums.com - Was Moses even a Hebrew?

The issue of Muhammad marrying a 9 year old girl is not a fact. it is a belief, a rumor, it is unsubstantiated.

It is so so easy to show that it is not proven fact. And here it is peddled as truth.

Another false claim in this thread. A person with intellectual integrity at this point would admit they were wrong to present it as fact.

It is more evidence of a flaw in the OP which is critical of people who cannot see their own flaws. It is more text book Hypocisy.

Here's 2 sources:

hyperlink >>> theguardian.com - The truth about Muhammad and Aisha

hyperlink >>> hindustantimes.com - Hazrat Aisha was 19, not 9

 

[dybmh]

and you being a Jew is not a false claim

I never said it was... you are taking my words out of context.

It's another false claim.