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The one true faith!

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
chuck010342 said:
Ahh relativism my arch enemy. I believe that relativism is a type of philosophy where there are no absolutes.
What would you say about a philosphy that reality is absolute, but our methods and ablility to discern reality do not allow us to know with absolute certainty when we have absolute truths about reality? Is that by your definition of relativism a relativistic concept or an absolute concept, or something else?
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
chuck010342 said:
So I would have to argue from the laws of logic.

One such law is the law of non-countradiction.

How can two faiths be true if they countradict each other?
here's something for ya Chuck:
How are we to know what G-d wants from us? Many religions claim to be the "truth" and divinly inspired but i think we've made it pretty apparent on this forum that no one here can truley say they know what G-d wants of us, so how can we say that we know what is "true" in the realm of the Divine.
I say your premise is flawed based upon quantum physics and the "Schrodinger Cat".
The physicist Erwin Schrödinger devised a 'thought experiment' to illustrate quantum superposition in everyday terms. Imagine putting a cat in a box that you subsequently seal so that you can't see what's happening inside. Sharing the box with the cat is a mechanism for releasing deadly cyanide gas, triggered by the decay of a radioactive atom. Because the decay of individual radioactive atoms is unpredictable, you - from your point of view, outside the box - cannot, at any given moment, know whether the cyanide has been released, or whether your cat is alive or dead. As far as you are concerned, the cat is simultaneously alive and dead
http://www.nature.com/news/1999/991014/pf/991014-11_pf.html
http://www.phobe.com/s_cat/s_cat.html
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci341236,00.html
Just a few links to the idea

if a single particle can exist in multiple places at once why does one faith have to be THE true faith and all others false?


but then again i could be totally off base what does everyone think??????:help: :confused:
 

chuck010342

Active Member
jewscout said:
interesting...then how do we determine which is "true" and which isn't?

The first thing we have to do is to make sure that it passes its own test so to speak. David Hume made himself known to be not as smart as he thought when he gave the famous statement

"The only thing we know is what can be tested using mathmatics or Emphrical science."

Well that statement does not pass its own test because we cannot test that statement using mathmatics or emphrical science.

The second thing we have to do is take a statement and see if it is logically possible.

The third thing we have to do is to take a statement and to see if it is arguable.
 

chuck010342

Active Member
Sunstone said:
reality is absolute, but our methods and ablility to discern reality do not allow us to know with absolute certainty when we have absolute truths about reality?

This is kinda hard to determine if it is relative or absolute because this philosophy is saying two things and it is supporting both relativism and Absolutism.

What I would say is this: If this philosophy is true then lets test it. If our ability to dicern reality is limited then how do we know that realtiy is absolute?

I would say that this is relativism if I had to give it a name. (does this philosophy have a name? I would love to know it?)
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
chuck010342 said:
I would say that this is relativism if I had to give it a name. (does this philosophy have a name? I would love to know it?)
I wouldn't call it relativism, but I don't know of a name for the philosophy -- if it is indeed a philosophy.
 

chuck010342

Active Member
jewscout said:
And you do Chuck?

I understand what was revealed. And Didn't you post something about there being countradictions within the bible? I can't seem to find that post anywhere.
 

chuck010342

Active Member
jewscout said:
here's something for ya Chuck:
How are we to know what G-d wants from us? Many religions claim to be the "truth" and divinly inspired but i think we've made it pretty apparent on this forum that no one here can truley say they know what G-d wants of us, so how can we say that we know what is "true" in the realm of the Divine.

If you don't know what God wants from us then why do you call him G-d?

This is where a good read on Thomas Aquanis can help. If faith is more powerful then reason, then how do we know wich faith we trust. We use logic and reason to determine which faith we follow.


jewscout said:
if a single particle can exist in multiple places at once why does one faith have to be THE true faith and all others false?

A single partice is not the same as a philosophy or a religion so thats a false analogy.

jewscout said:
but then again i could be totally off base what does everyone think??????:help: :confused:

When your confused and don't know what to do or whom to trust I think of this. I think of Matthew 18:3
And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
If you have to trust somebody I suggest you trust the one who did more for mankind then any other man.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
QUOTE=chuck010342]If you don't know what God wants from us then why do you call him G-d?[/QUOTE]
Out of respect for His Name. Deut. 12:3

We use logic and reason to determine which faith we follow.
But logic and reason has led me away from christianity

A single partice is not the same as a philosophy or a religion so thats a false analogy.
But if G-d can create a particle that exists in multiple places and goes against our own logic and reasoning how can we as mere humans presume to know which faith is the "true faith" of mankind

When your confused and don't know what to do or whom to trust I think of this. I think of Matthew 18:3
And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
If you have to trust somebody I suggest you trust the one who did more for mankind then any other man.
When i'm confused it turn to someone who's an expert in the field i find confusion in. If my car's messed up i go to a mechanic, if i have a question about judaism i ask my rabbi.
Though i ask HaShem for aid and wisdom in my life i take the initiative and try to work things out as much as I can at the same time.

My question was really to get the opinions of everyone on the forum on my analogy, since they are opinions i value.
 

chuck010342

Active Member
jewscout said:
Out of respect for His Name. Deut. 12:3

and why do you follow laws that are no longerbinding?

jewscout said:
But logic and reason has led me away from christianity

they don't understand christianity.

jewscout said:
But if G-d can create a particle that exists in multiple places and goes against our own logic and reasoning how can we as mere humans presume to know which faith is the "true faith" of mankind

I don't really understand what you are saying here.

jewscout said:
When i'm confused it turn to someone who's an expert in the field i find confusion in. If my car's messed up i go to a mechanic, if i have a question about judaism i ask my rabbi.

I do the exact same thing.
jewscout said:
Though i ask HaShem for aid and wisdom in my life i take the initiative and try to work things out as much as I can at the same time.

who is HaShem and why ask him? or why follow your own initiative?

jewscout said:
My question was really to get the opinions of everyone on the forum on my analogy, since they are opinions i value.

You seek opinion rather then truth? If that is the case then you and me should never speak agian.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Either there is a purpose to life or there is not. In each case, there can be only one correct answer. One is true, and the other is false; both cannot be true.

So I would have to argue from the laws of logic.

One such law is the law of non-countradiction.

How can two faiths be true if they countradict eachother?
You`re entirely ignoring the probability that they are both wrong.


 

robtex

Veteran Member
Jewscout, you do realize that the Jews, believe that the Torah is the word of God handed to them by Moses and thus is the one true faith for Jews who have covent with God to perserve the way of the Torah. In Judism others outside of Judism can believe what they wish but the Jews see their as the covent with God which could be seen as the one "true" faith.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
robtex said:
Jewscout, you do realize that the Jews, believe that the Torah is the word of God handed to them by Moses and thus is the one true faith for Jews who have covent with God to perserve the way of the Torah. In Judism others outside of Judism can believe what they wish but the Jews see their as the covent with God which could be seen as the one "true" faith.
yeah i realize that robtex. But as always I like to buck the system and say that, tho Judaism works for me, it doesn't work for everyone, and that's ok.
It all goes back to my crayon box theory on faith and the Divine.:D
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
chuck010342 said:
and why do you follow laws that are no longerbinding?
because to the Jews they still are
chuck010342 said:
they don't understand christianity.
Don't you mean I don't understand christianity even tho you couldn't be further from the truth.

chuck010342 said:
I don't really understand what you are saying here.
What i'm saying is if G-d can do something that goes against our common sense, as in one particle existing in multiple places at once, then how can we be so vane as to say we know the one "true faith". Were any of us there when many of our religions were first founded or their docterine first canonized? I'll go out on a limb and say no.

chuck010342 said:
who is HaShem and why ask him? or why follow your own initiative?
HaShem is a name of G-d, hebrew for "the name" it also signifies the merciful side of G-d and why wouldn't i ask for a little Divine guidance in times of trouble. I follow my own initiative because, tho all things happen through His will i know a miracle will not fall from the sky for me, i have to get out there and be the miracle:162:

chuck010342 said:
You seek opinion rather then truth? If that is the case then you and me should never speak agian.
i don't see why you and I should not speak again chuck, i sought everyone's opinions of my use of the cat in a box theory on this arguement.
 

chuck010342

Active Member
jewscout said:
because to the Jews they still are

how can they when scripture clearly teaches otherwise?

jewscout said:
Don't you mean I don't understand christianity even tho you couldn't be further from the truth.

What I am saying is that certain people in the world today don't understand what true christianity is about, like Ghandi did. You might be one or you might not be one I don't know yet.

jewscout said:
What i'm saying is if G-d can do something that goes against our common sense, as in one particle existing in multiple places at once, then how can we be so vane as to say we know the one "true faith".

We as humans do not, however we do know that which does know the one true faith.


jewscout said:
Were any of us there when many of our religions were first founded or their docterine first canonized? I'll go out on a limb and say no.

and I will say your right non of us were with some exeptions such as humanism. But there was something there.


jewscout said:
HaShem is a name of G-d, hebrew for "the name" it also signifies the merciful side of G-d and why wouldn't i ask for a little Divine guidance in times of trouble.

Quite right you ask the right person but that which you call on has already communicated to you in the form of a person (because you know hebrew) his name is Yoshua ben Josheph


jewscout said:
I follow my own initiative because, tho all things happen through His will i know a miracle will not fall from the sky for me, i have to get out there and be the miracle:162:

you follow your own initiative? Why? what makes you so great that you should follow yourself?


jewscout said:
i don't see why you and I should not speak again chuck, i sought everyone's opinions of my use of the cat in a box theory on this arguement.

The reason is because of what we want. You want opinion, I want Truth.
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
chuck010342 said:
you follow your own initiative? Why? what makes you so great that you should follow yourself?
Simply being a human being who is thinking their own thoughts makes them great.
I would not deride that for all the riches in the world.



chuck010342 said:
The reason is because of what we want. You want opinion, I want Truth.
You want your own interpretation of truth. You are not willing to accept that there may be other truths.
 
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