The One Cause of Poverty That’s Never Considered

[Revoltingest]

Who owns the Social Security Administration? The Government or private enterprise

Notice that the name isn't "The Socialism Administration".
It doesn't own/operate the means of production.

"Social" is in "socialism", but this doesn't make them equivalent.

 

[PureX]

Complete control? There are plenty of capitalists who are in prison right now who will disagree with you. Investments must remain within the law of the land.

Oh, I think not. Not one single capitalist banker ever went to jail in this country even after they crashed the global economy with their greed and dishonesty. And not one politician has ever dared even suggest that they should. In fact, we didn't even reinstate the laws that would stop them from doing it again.

Donald Trump has a long history of lying, cheating, and stealing from everyone he engaged with in business and he not only never when to jail, he got elected president! The only way a wealthy capitalist ever goes to jail is if he swindles the wrong other wealthy capitalists.

That’s because under Socialism it is the Government that is causing the damaging effects of socialist greed.

There are many methods of sharing control over commercial enterprise. A totalitarian dictatorship is not one of them. Dictatorships that call themselves 'socialist' are not socialist because they do not provide a method for shared control. Just the opposite in fact.

Again; under Capitalism, the wealth generated by the enterprise is always shared among those responsible for generating it. If you disagree, provide an example of your claim actually happening in the real world.

Walmart. They pay their workers so little that they have to rely on government assistance just to survive. Assistance that we all then have to pay for. Meanwhile they spend hundreds of millions of dollars (that they gain in profits) to bribe legislators to keep the minimum wage as low as possible and to disempower unions as much as possible. And they do this because it's cheaper for them to bribe the politicians than it is to pay a living wage to their workers. And Walmart is not alone in this practice. It's a common business practice among capitalists in the U S and all around the world.

Then why do so many senators and congressmen enact laws that make it more difficult for corporations to acquire wealth? Example; When our current President was running for office, he said publicly and made it very clear that Big Oil has no place in a Biden administration. Upon entering office, he immediately enacted policies making it much more difficult for Energy Companies to produce Oil, and guess what happened? The price of oil went through the roof! IOW if what you said were true, why is there case after case when politicians do things against corporations acquiring wealth?

The people wanted the environment protected more than they wanted cheap gas. Biden had to respond to that to win the election. But don't confuse this with the price of gas going up, because it was always going to go up, anyway. Gasoline is a captive market, meaning that the price will be set by what people can afford to pay, because they know we have to buy it.

Total ownership does not equal total control.

It does in our culture unless and until someone or something forcibly intervenes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh, I think not. Not one single capitalist banker ever went to jail in this country even after they crashed the global economy with their greed and dishonesty.

And neither did one bank regulator.
So I'm disinclined to trust your desire to put government in control of all.

 

[PureX]

Not "socialist" which is government owning the means of production.

That's not socialism, of course, but you will never give that lie up or stop repeating it. So I'll have to keep correcting you.

Socialism is the ideal of sharing control over commercial enterprise (production) among those involved in and effected by it (society).

 

[PureX]

Every capitalist hates government oversight and control of commercial enterprise because it gets in the way of their quest for maximum profits through their own total control of commercial enterprise. As a result, the capitalists and their supporters everywhere and for the last 100 years at least have been desperately and repeatedly trying to paint socialism as being all and only a totalitarian dictatorship. Something even worse than their own near total dictatorship over commercial enterprise. "See, THAT monster is even worse that THIS monster!"

 

[Stevicus]

Every capitalist hates government oversight and control of commercial enterprise because it gets in the way of their quest for maximum profits through their own total control of commercial enterprise. As a result, the capitalists and their supporters everywhere and for the last 100 years at least have been desperately and repeatedly trying to paint socialism as being all and only a totalitarian dictatorship. Something even worse than their own near total dictatorship over commercial enterprise. "See, THAT boogie man is even worse that THIS boogie man!"

I think it just goes back to the same game of rhetoric which has been going on for the past 100 years, as you point out. The violently fanatical opposition to the end of slavery, along with similarly violent opposition to the labor movement and labor laws predates the rise of any socialist government by many decades.

As I noted upthread, most perceptions of "capitalism" and "socialism" were formulated as attempts to try to explain and organize society which was beginning to rapidly change due to the rise of new technologies and machines which changed society irrevocably. Many people and many countries felt threatened by industrialism and tried to resist it, and this had its own consequences when it came to building weapons and armies.

An interesting sidenote I might add, as I was reading up on another topic (trying to find out if one could use a bicycle to power one's home): https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/12/08/504790589/could-you-power-your-home-with-a-bike

The short answer is that you can't generate enough power on a bicycle to power your home. But there was an interesting point raised in the article:

Biking, full time, every day, no weekends, for four weeks gets you to just a few percent of your monthly energy use. The discrepancy between what you personally can generate and what you personally use says a lot about what's happened with civilization and the planet over the past couple of centuries.

Consider this. For all of human history the amount of power the average person had to expend across each day was, well, one person-power's worth.

Duh.

And how much was that in terms of energy? Well, our little bike example gives us a good estimate: Eight hours of biking per day yields 800 Wh (0.8 kWh). So since the dawn of our species 300,000 years ago, 0.8 kWh was pretty much the energy available to pretty much everybody each day. If you personally wanted more energy you would need to buy someone else's person-power in the form of servants or, worse, enslaved populations.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's not socialism, of course, but you will never give that lie up or stop repeating it. So I'll have to keep correcting you.

Socialism is the ideal of sharing control over commercial enterprise (production) among those involved in and effected by it (society).

It's a violation of the rules to accuse another of lying.
I've dictionaries to back up the definition I use.
Are they all liars too?

 

[Kfox]

Oh, I think not. Not one single capitalist banker ever went to jail in this country even after they crashed the global economy with their greed and dishonesty. And not one politician has ever dared even suggest that they should. In fact, we didn't even reinstate the laws that would stop them from doing it again.

Much of the bank problems was due to attempting to give loans to the poor who couldn’t afford what they wanted to purchase, and they defaulted on the loans. If it were proven greed was the cause, they would have been convicted. But your personal opinions do not warrant legal conviction

Donald Trump has a long history of lying, cheating, and stealing from everyone he engaged with in business and he not only never when to jail, he got elected president! The only way a wealthy capitalist ever goes to jail is if he swindles the wrong other wealthy capitalists.

What did Trump do that was illegal?

There are many methods of sharing control over commercial enterprise. A totalitarian dictatorship is not one of them. Dictatorships that call themselves 'socialist' are not socialist because they do not provide a method for shared control. Just the opposite in fact.

I said nothing about totalitarian dictatorships; so why are you bringing this into the conversation?

Walmart. They pay their workers so little that they have to rely on government assistance just to survive.

But the pay the workers receive comes from the revenue the workers helped generate. Just because the amount of revenue given to the employees does not meat your personal approval does not mean it is not being shared. Care to try again?

The people wanted the environment protected more than they wanted cheap gas. Biden had to respond to that to win the election. But don't confuse this with the price of gas going up, because it was always going to go up, anyway. Gasoline is a captive market, meaning that the price will be set by what people can afford to pay, because they know we have to buy it.

Wait a minute! At first you said Corporate and individual wealth now owns and controls every senator and congressmen in the legislature through bribery; now you seem to be changing it to politicians acting according to the will of the people regardless of what corporate wants. Which is it? Ya gotta pick one.

It does in our culture unless and until someone or something forcibly intervenes.

The law intervenes; control is limited to what is legal.

 

[Kfox]

That's not socialism, of course, but you will never give that lie up or stop repeating it. So I'll have to keep correcting you.

Socialism is the ideal of sharing control over commercial enterprise (production) among those involved in and effected by it (society).

Can you give an example of Socialism (as you described) enacted?

 

[Revoltingest]

Much of the bank problems was due to attempting to give loans to the poor who couldn’t afford what they wanted to purchase, and they defaulted on the loans.

And this was due to the left's much vaunted regulation,
eg, Community Reinvestment Act. It required banks to
make riskier loans in under-served areas.
BTW, none of these lawmakers or regulators were ever
prosecuted for causing such massive losses.

 

[Lyndon]

It's a violation of the rules to accuse another of lying.
I've dictionaries to back up the definition I use.
Are they all liars too?

only an idiot would believe dictionary definitions as completely and comprehensively accurate

 

[Revoltingest]

only an idiot....

Thank you for admitting that.
(I wasn't going to go there.)

 

[Nakosis]

That's not socialism, of course, but you will never give that lie up or stop repeating it. So I'll have to keep correcting you.

Socialism is the ideal of sharing control over commercial enterprise (production) among those involved in and effected by it (society).

Sounds more like anarchy.
the organization of society on the basis of voluntary cooperation, without political institutions or hierarchical government; anarchism.

 

[Kfox]

Notice that the name isn't "The Socialism Administration".
It doesn't own/operate the means of production.

"Social" is in "socialism", but this doesn't make them equivalent.

Regardless of what it is called, my point is there are programs in place for people of his predicament. Can we agree on that?

 

[Audie]

Thank you for admitting that.
(I wasn't going to go there.)

: D.

 

[Audie]

Sounds more like anarchy.
the organization of society on the basis of voluntary cooperation, without political institutions or hierarchical government; anarchism.

It's not even anarchy. It's crazy talk.

Any time someone wants to reorganize society to their vision
of ideal, make everyone conform to it, you've a very dangerous
person. History is full of them.

They promise, they lie, AND if those malicious narcissists ever do get
power, they do great destruction.

And eventually are themselves hanging metaphorically or otherwise, by heels from
a lamp post.

 

[PureX]

Sounds more like anarchy.
the organization of society on the basis of voluntary cooperation, without political institutions or hierarchical government; anarchism.

No, it doesn't sound like anarchy at all. There really is no such thing as anarchy in actuality, as any situation that would resemble it will immediately fall prey to thug rule. Socialism simply spreads the decision-making authority within a commercial enterprise out among the people engaged in and effected by that commercial enterprise. There are various ways of doing that, but electing representatives to speak for each faction from among the members of each faction is probably the simplest and most effective, in much the same way as a labor union does it. But not just for labor. Also for vendors, consumers, community and environment.

As it is only the investor's representatives that are in the room when decisions are being made regarding the conduct of commercial enterprise, and their only priority is maximizing the profit returned to the capital investor(s). Thus, their greed controls all of their decisions, at the expense of everyone else involved. So we need to give those people representation in the decision-making process so that their needs and desires will also be considered and respected.

 

[PureX]

It's a violation of the rules to accuse another of lying.
I've dictionaries to back up the definition I use.
Are they all liars too?

Dictionaries simply record the common ways we misuse and wrongly define words to deceive and slander each other.

 

[PureX]

And this was due to the left's much vaunted regulation,
eg, Community Reinvestment Act. It required banks to
make riskier loans in under-served areas.
BTW, none of these lawmakers or regulators were ever
prosecuted for causing such massive losses.

There is no left or right. The legalized bribery effects politicians on both sides of the isle. It was Bill Clinton that agreed to eliminate the Glass-Stegal Act that had prevented banks from becoming investment firms since it caused the disaster of the Great Depression. And it was Obama that failed to reinstate it after the banks managed to crash the global economy with their phony investment schemes. But as a capitalist, of course, you want to blame it all on the government, and especially on the side of government that dares to defy the capitalist agenda more often. But the truth is that both sides are pretty well totally corrupted by the bribery they receive from wealthy corporate lobbyists in behalf of their wealthy capitalist business interests. And Biden has been taking their money and doing their bidding his entire career in politics.

The whole left vs right thing is just a big smoke screen to keep us from recognizing who the real criminals here.

 

[PureX]

Can you give an example of Socialism (as you described) enacted?

It's been enacted right here in the US over the years; mostly when capitalist greed finally threatened to destroy the country. The Glass-Stegal Act preventing banks from meddling in market speculation with other people's money after the Great Deptession is an example of government enforced socialism. Labor unions are an example of worker enforced socialism. Consumer protection laws are an example of consumer enforced socialism through government regulation. These are all examples of capitalists being forced to accommodate the needs of society because they would not do so, otherwise. It's why the pro-capitalists on here think socialism is all about government force. Because capital investors will not accommodate the needs or desires of society unless they are forced to do so. Their only concern is to gain the maximum return on the capital they've invested. And they need total control over the enterprise they've invested in to achieve that.

But due to the corruption of government by corporate lobbying and their bribery, the Glass-Stegal Act was repealed. And the labor unions were undermined, and many consumer protections are also under attack. Even Social Security is under attack by many corrupt politicians. Because the capitalists have amassed huge piles of money to spend bribing the government to clear the way for their bottomless greed. And now even in the wealthiest nation on Earth, we have millions of people living in poverty, or sliding into it.