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the old and the new testament

@IndigoChild5559
Here is the account of the beginning of the Church at the Feast of Pentecost:

“The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:1-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
“When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?” Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.” But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’ “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. For David says concerning Him: ‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’ “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’ “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:1-47‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Paul wasn’t a believer at this time
 

stanberger

Active Member
No because although he was one of the Apostles and wrote a lot of the letters to the churches he wasn’t the founder. The term Christian means follower of Christ, so no he wasn’t the founder or originator of the followers of Christ. Jesus Christ is the founder, we follow and worship Him.

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
thats a tough sell. remember Jesus never uttered the following terms. not once ' christianity. church trinity. sun. day worship. easter '
 
thats a tough sell. remember Jesus never uttered the following terms. not once ' christianity. church trinity. sun. day worship. easter '
Paul didn’t mention the celebration of Easter because it’s Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits and the rest of the Feasts mentioned in Scripture. People who use the word Easter are misguided, it’s an idolatrous name, shouldn’t be used in The Church. Jesus nor the Apostles taught that.
Jesus didn’t mention the word trinity but He did say this:
“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Notice- In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
 

stanberger

Active Member
Paul didn’t mention the celebration of Easter because it’s Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits and the rest of the Feasts mentioned in Scripture. People who use the word Easter are misguided, it’s an idolatrous name, shouldn’t be used in The Church. Jesus nor the Apostles taught that.
Jesus didn’t mention the word trinity but He did say this:
“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Notice- In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
never said it according to biblical scholar bart erman after extensive research it would make him a liar had he said it. because Jesus said ' I Only come for lost sheep of Israel ' erman ' none of the gospels were even written by the 4 said apostles and all were written in greek that no apostle spoke. john 3 16 was a much later addition ' what you do with this info is up to you
 
never said it according to biblical scholar bart erman after extensive research it would make him a liar had he said it. because Jesus said ' I Only come for lost sheep of Israel ' erman ' none of the gospels were even written by the 4 said apostles and all were written in greek that no apostle spoke. john 3 16 was a much later addition ' what you do with this info is up to you
I’m not taking Bart Erhman’s word for that, he was born in 1955, is considered an apostate. But before moving on to the other subjects…
My point has been made about the founder of the Church and it wasn’t Paul.
 

stanberger

Active Member
I’m not taking Bart Erhman’s word for that, he was born in 1955, is considered an apostate. But before moving on to the other subjects…
My point has been made about the founder of the Church and it wasn’t Paul.
without Paul. no church. no christianity. dude was the founder. not rabbi Jesus
 
without Paul. no church. no christianity. dude was the founder. not rabbi Jesus
Like I posted already on when and how the Church began in Acts, Paul who considered himself the least of the Apostles and was a great man of God, wasn’t even a believer yet. Paul says he was crucified with Christ It’s no longer I that lives but Christ in me.
You’re badly mistaken and encourage you to search out the Scriptures yourself instead of relying on other people.
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 

stanberger

Active Member
Like I posted already on when and how the Church began in Acts, Paul who considered himself the least of the Apostles and was a great man of God, wasn’t even a believer yet. Paul says he was crucified with Christ It’s no longer I that lives but Christ in me.
You’re badly mistaken and encourage you to search out the Scriptures yourself instead of relying on other people.
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
sorry mate. Thomas Jefferson after careful research concluded ' Paul the first coruptor of the doctrines of Jesus ' Jesus taught pure monotheism
 
sorry mate. Thomas Jefferson after careful research concluded ' Paul the first coruptor of the doctrines of Jesus ' Jesus taught pure monotheism
Now you’re on to Thomas Jefferson as your authority. Was he even born again of the Spirit? Jesus said My Father and I are One, so seems you’re mistaken again.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
@IndigoChild5559
Here is the account of the beginning of the Church at the Feast of Pentecost:

“The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:1-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
“When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?” Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.” But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’ “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. For David says concerning Him: ‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’ “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’ “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:1-47‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Paul wasn’t a believer at this time
The theology at this time in the history of the Church was not the same as what it came to be after Paul. Paul is by far the biggest former of what came to be standard Christian doctrine.
 
The theology at this time in the history of the Church was not the same as what it came to be after Paul. Paul is by far the biggest former of what came to be standard Christian doctrine.
You would have to explain what you mean by that, I don’t see Paul as the foundation of the Gospel, Jesus Christ is and the Holy Spirit is the one doing the teaching, directing and indwelling believers
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Some seem to conveniently forget that names are words and words are not the exact items that they represent. Thus, it's what the word symbolizes that's important, and "Easter" in English symbolizes the day of Jesus' resurrection that we celebrate. Same with "Trinity". Same with "Church". Same with "God". Same with...
 
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Consider these Scriptures in light of what you’ve posted:
“and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭3:15-18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7-8, 10-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

People still twist what Paul wrote, Jesus didn’t reveal everything when He was on the earth but the Holy Spirit would lead people into all truth and continue teaching, revealing His plan.
 
Some seem to conveniently forget that names are words and words are not the exact items that they represent. Thus, it's what the word symbolizes that's important, and "Easter" in English symbolizes the day of Jesus' resurrection that we celebrate. Same with "Trinity". Same with "Church". Same with "God". Same with...
The English word is Passover, Easter and it’s origin isn’t a correct translation or word that should be used by the Church. Notice Easter is used 1 time in the KJV. Call the Feast of Passover by its proper name, Jesus is the Passover Lamb, Easter doesn’t even fit, not Scriptural. How do you get Easter out of pascha?
D72F80A1-2AC8-43EF-A82C-B63B0469F8BF.jpeg
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The English word is Passover, Easter and it’s origin isn’t a correct translation or word that should be used by the Church. Notice Easter is used 1 time in the KJV. Call the Feast of Passover by its proper name, Jesus is the Passover Lamb, Easter doesn’t even fit, not Scriptural. How do you get Easter out of pascha?
View attachment 62126
Again, you don't get it that what's something may be called is not exactly the same thing that it actually stands for. In English, we use "Easter", but in my wife's Italian, it is "Pasqua". Whether it be "Easter" or "Pasqua", it's the same day in the Western Church.

We don't worship Eostar, so all you're doing is making a mountain out of a molehill.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Are these anti-Easter folks also unhappy about other Saxon words for religious holidays? Are they upset we say 'holy day' (Saxon words) instead of 'festival' (a Latin derived word)?

What about 'Whitsun', is this made-up from Paganism too?

What about 'Yule'?

What about saints with Saxon names, are they also secretly Pagan?
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Now you’re on to Thomas Jefferson as your authority. Was he even born again of the Spirit? Jesus said My Father and I are One, so seems you’re mistaken again.

Jefferson did not believe in Jesus' divinity, so no he was not 'born of the Spirit. He referred to everything religious as 'hocus pocus'.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting that, and may You and Yours, and all other Christians reading this, have a Happy Easter. To all Jews, have a most blessed Pesach, and to all Muslims a most blessed Ramadan.

I 2nd that for everyone here who is celebrating.
 
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