The next Civil War

[Kooky]

Politics is stupid, well not stupid but the vote is everything. Never turn away a potential voter I suppose.

Ironically, it's often much more feasible to enact political changes outside the ballot box than with it.

 

[Nakosis]

Ironically, it's often much more feasible to enact political changes outside the ballot box than with it.

I hate to agree with you, but...

 

[Kooky]

The Republicans and the Democrats have been united in keeping other parties off the ballots. If there were three or four or more competing parties as in most countries, I doubt the US would be so polarized.

As much as I'd like to agree with you, the current phenomenon of political polarization affects most of the Western world, where functional multi-party systems of politics are the norm.

 

[crossfire]

The Republicans and the Democrats have been united in keeping other parties off the ballots. If there were three or four or more competing parties as in most countries, I doubt the US would be so polarized.

Now it's not about keeping other parties off the ballot--it's about keeping people from voting. :/

 

[The Hammer]

An expert in studying civil wars around the planet predicts the USA is on the brink of a civil war. She said this tends to happen in nations where there is a strong political element that is becoming more and more extreme, and the members are finding themselves threatened to become a minority of the population. These two elements define the current GOP and conservative voters.

She also stated that the looming civil war in the USA won't be delineated by state lines, but ideological lines. So there won't be defined, armed sides fighting like we are used to, or expect. What she stated will be a more clandestine war, attacks on prominent people and bombings against organizations. The FBI is seeing warning signs of an increase in homemade bombs, and more bomb making videos and instructions being shared online. The Jan 6 attacks has been the largest example of this civil war.

Should law enforcement do more work to investigate people buying materials that could be used for bombs, and do more to investigate threats by more angry and extremist people?

"It doesn't do to behave as if our divisions must compel us to bloodshed, he adds, because dwelling on such thoughts and making such predictions may bring that prospect closer to reality, even if intended to do the opposite.

That makes sense, especially if you believe that too much thinking about the unthinkable can become acceptance of the unacceptable."

Imagine another American Civil War, but this time in every state


I think we need to be very careful what we wish (consciously or not) for these next few years.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Please elaborate what you mean by the terms fiat rule, mandate, norm, and constitutional republic.

Without that kind of context, your statement is just an incomprehensible word salad to me.

Let's use a real world example.

Is Biden going through proper channels or is he just spitting out mandate after mandate?

 

[Kooky]

Let's use a real world example.

Is Biden going through proper channels or is he just spitting out mandate after mandate?

Are you argueing that presidential decrees caused the 6th January incident or the Charlottesville rally?

I honestly can't tell from your vague allusions and avoidance of any concrete argument.

 

[Altfish]

An expert in studying civil wars around the planet predicts the USA is on the brink of a civil war. She said this tends to happen in nations where there is a strong political element that is becoming more and more extreme, and the members are finding themselves threatened to become a minority of the population. These two elements define the current GOP and conservative voters.

She also stated that the looming civil war in the USA won't be delineated by state lines, but ideological lines. So there won't be defined, armed sides fighting like we are used to, or expect. What she stated will be a more clandestine war, attacks on prominent people and bombings against organizations. The FBI is seeing warning signs of an increase in homemade bombs, and more bomb making videos and instructions being shared online. The Jan 6 attacks has been the largest example of this civil war.

Should law enforcement do more work to investigate people buying materials that could be used for bombs, and do more to investigate threats by more angry and extremist people?

Didn't it start on January 6th 2021?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I view the 6th as a warning sign. Not a start of a civil war.

 

[sun rise]

No. It's always the instigators that pushes others to act.

A guess as to who those instigators are?

The right wing's continual lies about the last election including submitting false documents that they won an election they lost. This has been building since "Swift Boat" days through the lies about Obama's birth certificate to trying to steal the last election by the Trump Cult including committing crimes to do so.

 

[sun rise]

I view the 6th as a warning sign. Not a start of a civil war.

To me it's been going on with increasing violence for a long time with domestic terrorist attacks. Jan 6th was more than a warning sign, it was a clear and present attempt to overturn an election and put a tyrant in office. It was the American equivalent of the "beer hall putsch" in Germany.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The right wing's continual lies about the last election including submitting false documents that they won an election they lost. This has been building since "Swift Boat" days through the lies about Obama's birth certificate to trying to steal the last election by the Trump Cult including committing crimes to do so.

I think its the left aisle intrusive nanny state that enables setting up an infrastructure that freely allows rule by fiat and endless mandates that intentionally and willfully bypass legal protections and checks and balances that were set up to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

 

[Secret Chief]

The Republicans and the Democrats have been united in keeping other parties off the ballots. If there were three or four or more competing parties as in most countries, I doubt the US would be so polarized.

Unfortunately this is tied in with FPTP. Sensible countries have some form of PR. You know, actual representative democracy.

 

[Ella S.]

Civil wars happen when politicians within a nation stoop to armed conflict against one another, not when there's a rise in civilian terrorism. Only the elites hold power. If any of us want to play the game of politics, we have to choose one of their teams or convert one of them to our side.

The citizenry isn't the real threat. The real threat is when government institutions and political parties decide to tear into each other, like when a president tries to orchestrate a coup against congress. But there won't be a civil war. Liberals are opposed to gun ownership; they will be completely eradicated if the two parties actually collide, and so there's incentive for liberal politicians to give into the violence rather than meet it.

In reality, we're seeing a rise of authoritarianism and plutocratic corporatism, with a widening economic divide and a shrinking working class to prove it. There will be no war. It will be a slow and total takeover and there's nothing we can do to stop it. We have to hope that those in positions of actual power find their souls, which I wouldn't bet on.

 

[F1fan]

The water becomes clouded when members of law enforcement are members of militias and groups willing to overthrow a valid election and storm the nation's capital. When legislators are culpable in spreading disinformation and sowing doubt about the validity of our current president. When judges hand down soft sentences for insurrectionists.

I see a bigger threat from a GOP that's actively working at the state level to set things in place to manipulate future elections, and from a judiciary that may quite likely enable them in doing so.

The Future of Our Democracy Will Come Down To State Legislatures

What scares me is that I don't see any conservatives on this forum, or my friends, out my neighbors that are opposed to what these legislatures are doing. They often deny it is a problem. So to my mind this complicity or silence is part of the civil war. And how does fairness and access to voting come about if one political party is using their own unchecked power to rig how voting and results occur. Gerrymandering is becoming a bigger problem and is an easy way to create election fraud.

 

[F1fan]

It's a poor way to fight a civil war. One still needs a capable army and the logistical means in order to engage its enemies.

But how do you wage such a war when 2/3 of the people in your neighborhood are your enemy? There's no army. It's you against your neighbors.

If any government starts getting intrusive and goes into surveillance state mode on its citizens investigating anyone and anything threatening it's power, I'm joining the other side of that horrid recipe.

I suspect you'd have a quick change of mind if there were tens of thousands of liberals building bombs and conspiring to kill people who vote republican. Just let the liberals kill the citizens minding their own business, which you could be one of the victims?

 

[F1fan]

I'd say that the Republicans have been fighting a cold war against American values for several decades now, quite successfully, that is just now evolving into terrorism and guerilla warfare. I expect to see something like the Irish religious wars over the next few years - drive-by strikes, snipers, home-made bombs, etc..

One point I bring up is how the Republicans no longer claim to be the party of family values. I think even they know that would be laughed at by voters.

Was this the source? Are We Headed for Another Civil War?

Actually it was several interviews with Barbara Walter in the last week. Here is a link to a good one:

She has studied civil wars around the world for decades and has an excellent assessment of the USA today.

 

[F1fan]

As much as I'd like to agree with you, the current phenomenon of political polarization affects most of the Western world, where functional multi-party systems of politics are the norm.

It seems an easier way to be political today than debate ideas and expect the voters to value the intellectual process. Emotions are easier to manipulate and attract. Discussiong ideas is hard and requires effort to be informed.

 

[F1fan]

Didn't it start on January 6th 2021?

I suggest it started with the nomination of trump for president, as the misinformation and propaganda ramped up to authoritarian levels.

 

[Twilight Hue]

But how do you wage such a war when 2/3 of the people in your neighborhood are your enemy? There's no army. It's you against your neighbors.


I suspect you'd have a quick change of mind if there were tens of thousands of liberals building bombs and conspiring to kill people who vote republican. Just let the liberals kill the citizens minding their own business, which you could be one of the victims?

I usually adapt to circumstances that present a danger.

For me, a civil war always, in order to succeed, needs and requires the proper capability and logistics aside from adequate and competent leadership to carry things out.

If you have none of that, it's ill advised to act in ways that accomplishes little more than skirmishes at best. It's best to wait or just not do it at all.