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The New World Tranlsation of the Holy Scriptures

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by dan, Jul 19, 2005.

  1. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    Ok Heres Hebrews Chapter 1 (niv)- When reading this whole chapter we can see a number of things plainly.

    Jesus is superior to all angles, much of the chapter is dedicated to this fact
    - All Gods angels are to worship the Son.
    Yet you would claim that Jesus is the archangel Michael.

    - It was Jesus who In the beginning laid the foundations of the earth,
    and the heavens are the work of his hands.
    John 1:1-3 agrees with this
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


    Much of Psalm 45 is regarded as prophetic as are many of the old testament passages, as the author of the http://www.carm.org/jw/heb1_8.htm article points out
    They knew something we didn't. In fact, in Ezekiel 28:12-17 is a section that deals with the fall of the devil. Verse 13 says describes how he was in the garden of Eden. Verse 14 says he was the anointed cherub, (v. 15), etc. But the context of this section begins with an address to the king of Tyre (v. 12). Yet, right after Ezekiel is told to write to the King of Tyre he then goes on to describe what the great majority of theologians agree with is a description of the devil's fall. So, we need to look at the context that the writer of Hebrews put Psalm 45:6 into.



    Hebrews 1

    The Son Superior to Angels

    1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
    5For to which of the angels did God ever say,
    "You are my Son;
    today I have become your Father[a]"[b]? Or again,
    "I will be his Father,
    and he will be my Son"[c]? 6And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
    "Let all God's angels worship him."[d] 7In speaking of the angels he says,
    "He makes his angels winds,
    his servants flames of fire."[e] 8But about the Son he says,
    "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
    and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
    9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
    therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
    by anointing you with the oil of joy."[f] 10He also says,
    "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
    and the heavens are the work of your hands.
    11They will perish, but you remain;
    they will all wear out like a garment.
    12You will roll them up like a robe;
    like a garment they will be changed.
    But you remain the same,
    and your years will never end."[g] 13To which of the angels did God ever say,
    "Sit at my right hand
    until I make your enemies
    a footstool for your feet"[h]? 14Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?






     
  2. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes ,there is no one more superior than Gods son, thats why Jehovah God has made him king of his kingdom,only the first born of creation is good enough for that job .and when the resurrected Jesus christ has finished doing every thing that Jehovah has asked of him, then he will hand the kingdom back to his Father.what an acomplishment that will be ,getting every thing back to how Jehovah God wanted it in the first place a perfect earth with perfect people on it .wow thats something to look foreward to :clap :) Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. For [God] "subjected all things under his feet." But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone....1;CORINTHIANS 15;24-28


     
  3. reyjamiei

    reyjamiei Member

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    dhiannian, if you are referring to the LDS KJV as being a paraphrase of the KJV 1611 with changes, it's not. The LDS KJV is the same text as the KJV 1611. There is an Inspired version of the Bible which is also known as the Joseph Smith Translation which is different from the KJV 1611 and with some interesting changes. Some of the changes made in the Inspired Version of the Bible appear in the LDS KJV as footnotes and is not part of the actual biblical text. The Inspired Version of the Bible is not used by LDS but is used by RLDS now known as Community of Christ.
     
  4. Original Freak

    Original Freak I am the ORIGINAL Freak

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    Wow! I don't even know what to say anymore.:help:
     
  5. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Yes i agree it is pretty accurate to the old texts and i would think that would be the most important reason for using it ,that is only my thoughts thou every one to there own ideas,
    "May undeserved kindness and peace be increased to you by an accurate knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord."—2 PETER 1:2.

     
  6. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Well I would disagree with that completely, as would all the Koine speaking Greek Orthodox priests I've ever met. The New World Translation of the New Testament is absolutely riddled with either genuine errors or deliberate mistranslations, the most famous being the beginning of John's Gospel.

    James
     
  7. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    well ,an accurate translation would not be in line with the manmade trinity doctrine so i would think that is quite true to say that the Greek orthodox priests would disagree with an accurate translation.i suppose it depends on what a person is seeking ,accurate knowledge or manmade tradition every one to there own:)
     
  8. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    And you would disagree with them because, your translation better fits your views. Which are you seeking? It is a manmade tradition to declaim the divinity of our savior.
     
  9. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Amen! People have been trying to do this for 2,000 years.... but they all have failed, and all will fail.
     
  10. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Your anti-trinitarian traditions, for one. I occaisionally look up topics in the topical guide of my Mormon KJV, one of the topics being "Godhead," the mormon word for the trinity. Then, I'll look up all the verses in all the different translations I have (trust me, it's a lot), and the JW Bible is the only one that seems to have had trouble translating certain verses.
     
  11. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    :biglaugh:
     
  12. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    You know, James, you make me think. REally the only reason I thought it was more accurate was because I hear it all the time, mostly from JWs. I think I'll have to check it out for myself, (thought I did wonder about how the beginning of John's Gospel was so different since that was the verse the mormon missionairies used to tell me that Jehovah was Jesus (not to be confused with Jesus is God), which flew in the face of my JW thoughts.)
     
  13. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Amen to that... our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters sure have opened my eyes about so much. They seem to have such a firm grasp of history and language that is lacking with many of us... myself included.
     
  14. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    What the JWs in essence are doing is gathering all the texts in the world and trying to determine which texts can be put together to fit their doctrine. I love the drawing of Solomon's temple in the reference edition. The front gate is ten times as tall as anything else in the drawing because of a mistake a transciber made; but they interpret it literally, so the gate stands a hundred feet above the rest of the temple.

    There's a huge fundamental flaw in trying to determine truth by studying all of the texts in existence - none of them are originals, and they could be light years away from the truth. Putting them all together and trying to draw a conclusion from the collective data is ridiculous.
     
  15. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    The trinity is biblical.
    Gen 1:26 "Let us make man in our image" (don't give me the whole "we as in what monarchs use" line, either)
    Gen 3:22 "Man has become as one of us"
    Matt 28:19 "baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"
    John 10:30 "I and my father are one" (you may say, "yes. One in purpose." That is what the trinity is - 3 seperate and distict personages who are united in purpose)
    John 10:38 "the father is in me"
    John 17:21 "That they all me be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee"
    Acts 17:29 mentions a "Godhead" or trinity. so do Romans 1:20 and Col 2:9 (except in the JW bible.)
    1 Cor 8:6 "To us there is but one God"
    2 Cor 4:4 "Christ, who is the image of God"
    1 Jn 5:7 "Tree that bear record in heaven, the Father, The Word [as you can see in Hebrews 1:1-5ish], and the Holy Ghost"

    Just because the Bible doesn't come right out and say "there is a trinity. This is what it is." does not mean that its principle are unBiblical in any way, and I have shown that they are indeed Biblical.
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    JW have not always had the NWT we used other bibles before the NWT was printed .and we could still see that the trinity was a manmade doctrine ,not in line with the scriptures as a whole .so its not a case of making the translation fit our view its a case of getting back to the pure word of truth .surely that should be the aim of any translater.
     
  17. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    regarding the scriptures in genesis 1; 26 and 3;22 when we have a correct understanding, the truth becomes clear, here Jehovah God was speaking to his firstborn son , Jesus was in the heavens with his father. Jesus had a prehuman life in the heavens before coming down to the earth as a man .so when Jehovah said let US make man he was speaking to his firstborn son in the heavens
    The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life.

    Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man..John 3;13the son of man is Jesus himself

    because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me ...John 6;38 So Jesus is doing his fathers will after coming down from heaven

    What, therefore, if YOU should behold the Son of man ascending to where he was before? ...John 6;62 yes, where he was before that was in heaven with his father

    So he went on to say to them: "YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world...John 8;23thats right ,the realms above are the heavens wherehe was before he came to the earth. he was with his fatherin the heavens.

    Jesus said to them: "If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth...John 8;42 yes thats right he was sent forth by his father from heaven

    In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in [the] beginning with God....John 1;1-2 yes ,when the correct understanding is applied we find the bible as a whole harmonizes

     
  18. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    regarding matthew 28;19

    Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit

    In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word most frequently used for "spirit" is ru´ach, meaning "breath; wind; spirit." In the Greek Scriptures, the word is pneu´ma, having a similar meaning. Do these words indicate that the holy spirit is part of a Trinity? no the holy spirit is Gods active force

    THE Bible’s use of "holy spirit" indicates that it is a controlled force that Jehovah God uses to accomplish a variety of his purposes. To a certain extent, it can be likened to electricity, a force that can be adapted to perform a great variety of operations.​

    At Genesis 1:2 the Bible states that "God’s active force ["spirit" (Hebrew, ru´ach)] was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." Here, God’s spirit was his active force working to shape the earth

    At Matthew 28:19 reference is made to "the name . . . of the holy spirit." But the word "name" does not always mean a personal name, either in Greek or in English. When we say "in the name of the law," we are not referring to a person. We mean that which the law stands for, its authority. Robertson’s Word Pictures in the New Testament says: "The use of name (onoma) here is a common one in the Septuagint and the papyri for power or authority." So baptism ‘in the name of the holy spirit’ recognizes the authority of the spirit, that it is from God and functions by divine will.

     
  19. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Yes it is, you just said so yourself. You had supposedly inaccurate translations, that did not fit your view, so you(JWs) made a new one, "getting back to the pure word of truth", or translating it to agree with you.

    It sure should be, but if you have an agenda from the start, say that the other translations are wrong, then you start out biased and unable to objectively translate, because if you see that a word should be such, but it agrees with an "inaccurate" translation, well it must be wrong, and it means something else that fits in with your theology.
     
  20. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    regarding JOHN 10;30 Yes you are quite right Aqualung ,to say that the meaning here is unity of purpose between Jehovah God and Jesus his son , no mention of the third part thou?

    I and the Father are one John 10;30

    in order that YOU may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the FatherJohn 10;38this means unity of purpose not that they are the same thing . this is in line with this scripture where his disciples would also be in unity of purpose his disciples are not part of a trinity are they

    in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth...John 17;21the scriptures always harmonize when the correct understanding is applied

     
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