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The New Middle Ground?

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The video below makes an interesting case that, even after a year of Trump in office, our sense of what are acceptable political views has already shifted further right. Using the idea of the "Overton window" to describe what is politically acceptable and clips from the years news coverage, it is possible to show how Trump's ability to do the unthinkable has made radical conservative views look more respectable by comparison.


Do you think this sounds right? Or is this just politically correct intolerance of our increasingly fact-free media diet?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I don't think the country has changed much.
The election could've easily gone for Hillary.
So it's like a coin toss, in that one cannot say
things are becoming more heads & less tails.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The video below makes an interesting case that, even after a year of Trump in office, our sense of what are acceptable political views has already shifted further right. Using the idea of the "Overton window" to describe what is politically acceptable and clips from the years news coverage, it is possible to show how Trump's ability to do the unthinkable has made radical conservative views look more respectable by comparison.


Do you think this sounds right? Or is this just politically correct intolerance of our increasingly fact-free media diet?

Interesting. I always thought that the notion of someone considering something to be "radical," "ridiculous," or "unthinkable" is an indicator of someone who is incapable of being a free thinker and unable to think outside the box. It also comes across as a bit arrogant, since anyone who would label an idea "radical" or "ridiculous" or "unthinkable" is attempting to set themselves up as some kind of authority over ideas and thought. It's a dishonest tactic of intimidation and ridicule which should be rejected in open discussion. It relies too much on an "audience" either cheering or jeering, and it indicates that someone is gambling on their abilities to manipulate and persuade the peanut gallery.

No doubt it works as a political tactic, as it has since the days of the Roman Empire. But sometimes it doesn't work, and this is what we're seeing now with Trump in office. People who had previously set themselves up as the ultimate arbiters of what is "normal" versus what is "ridiculous" are now getting visibly frustrated and upset that their tactics are starting to fail. "How can anyone support Trump!?! These people are just crazy!" That's the refrain we keep hearing these days. It's also an indicator of insularity and groupthink, as people who have been out of touch and consider themselves far above the hoi polloi have lost track of where they're going and what they're doing.

It's perfectly natural that those who have occupied a comfortable position in their ivory towers would want to stay there, but that, in and of itself, has become more important than whatever principles or ideals put them there in the first place. There are historical examples one can draw upon, particularly within certain religions which ruled the roost for centuries. After a time, the Church became more interested in protecting the "institution" than practicing the principles upon which it was founded, and this is where the rubber meets the road when ideals clash and institutions come crashing down.

When people are motivated by individual gain and personal benefit to compromise and water down their principles just because they want to enjoy a life of hedonistic comfort and luxury, that's when they become vulnerable. They become inflexible, intransigent, and incapable of recognizing that which challenges and threatens them until it stares them in the face, and then they wonder "How could this have happened!??!"
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
. Using the idea of the "Overton window" to describe what is politically acceptable and clips from the years news coverage, it is possible to show how Trump's ability to do the unthinkable has made radical conservative views look more respectable by comparison.
I am interested to know what you consider radical conservative views, could you give a few examples? As far as the video goes, I'd say if the theory is true and correct then what Trump is doing is a perfect example of the idea of having to use an acetylene torch to light a safety candle-a true black magician! Overall I'd say we will see how it all turns out in the 2020 elections irregardless of what any social scientists or pollsters will predict or what partisan medias will push as an agenda.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I am interested to know what you consider radical conservative views, could you give a few examples? As far as the video goes, I'd say if the theory is true and correct then what Trump is doing is a perfect example of the idea of having to use an acetylene torch to light a safety candle-a true black magician! Overall I'd say we will see how it all turns out in the 2020 elections irregardless of what any social scientists or pollsters will predict or what partisan medias will push as an agenda.

I wasn't thinking very deeply when I was using the phrase. I meant radical in relation to what we currently have so it would change depending on where the "centre ground" currently is. Off the top of my head, I think you could describe "Paleoconservativism" as radically conservative even though some of its ideas have become more mainstream in the Trump era.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I don't think the country has changed much.
The election could've easily gone for Hillary.
So it's like a coin toss, in that one cannot say
things are becoming more heads & less tails.
You totally ignored the OP with that comment. Now if you wanted to argue that it does not exist, that's one thing. But to ignore the OP thesis entirely makes your comment a random comment not a comment responsive to the idea.

There is an interesting critique of that concept that I think makes sense: The Flaws of the Overton Window Theory

This is perhaps the Overton Window’s biggest drawback as a theory of change: It tells us more about the handful of activists who supposedly move the window than the voters whose opinions actually change. While Trump has certainly lowered the standard of debate on the right, he didn’t have to move the consensus rightward; he played to a bloc of voters who already found his proposals desirable. Sanders, too, connected with bottom-up movements such as the Fight for $15 and Occupy Wall Street. To chalk up their successes to shock tactics is to ignore the long-simmering populism that swept both right and left in the presidential primaries. It is impossible to understand what drives these movements without engaging with the economic and cultural circumstances that underpin them.

The more divided we become, the harder it is to locate the Overton Window, let alone move it. There is now a window of policies that are acceptable to the Republican base, and another for Democrats, but on the national level, there is no window. Instead of a consensus edging one way or another, we have a choice between two poles. The Overton Window is ultimately a name for what we have lost, not an indication of where we are headed. Its popularity today represents a powerful nostalgia for the center. It doesn’t help us overcome fragmentation or rebuild a consensus. Its attractiveness lies in its reassurance that a middle ground once existed.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You totally ignored the OP with that comment.
Geeze....someone got up on the wrong side of the doggie bed today.
You totally misunderstand my comment.
Now if you wanted to argue that it does not exist, that's one thing. But to ignore the OP thesis...
I point out that things aren't as extreme in government or among voters as people believe.
But if this is at odds with the video, it's because I'm not watching those.
I go with what the OP wrote.
 
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