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The Need For Christian Symbolism on Government Property

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
From the OP .....

"And PLEASE, no This is a Christian nation or America was founded on Christian principles therefore . . . . . If these are your best replies then save yourself the effort and don't bother posting."


Those people who first came here the pilgrims came here seeking Religious freedom to worship God in the way they chose. And from there came to be the
13 colonies which later became the
13 United States.
But still you avoid the first question.
What is your True Motive behind in wanting those things Removed.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Write them a letter, maybe they will let you take it all down and replace it with porn.
That would be more honest in the government, given the news. :p

The question is, Why do people feel threatened by them.
Because the bible has been whored out to justify lots of sinning.

People who are concerned about such things, have something to feel guilty about.
I would say it's the people who feel a need to paper themselves with "God" (aka: religious texts or symbols) who are the ones trying to hide what's really going on in their heads.

Otherwise why let something bother you, Unless people feel guilty about something.
So the people put up statues that are forbidden in the Ten Commandments because they feel guilty they want idols?

What is the True Motive behind it, of wanting them to come down.
Not wanting Jesus and friends to be nothing more than a team mascot, for one. Have some respect for the Messiah, Jesus ...

When I see them, I'm don't feel quilty about anything.
I thought the entire point of Christianity was to make you feel guilt about something. As I said before, religious texts and imagery has to be some sort of "protective spell" or something, something meant to hide behind to protect us from having to look at ourselves. It can't be to respect the characters within or the deity supposedly responsible, because it's far too crass.

To say, We just want them down, what's their true Motive behind it, of wanting them down. That's the real question to ask.
This is a rather long post to say the same sentence over and over and still be wrong.

Unless people have a sin in their life, that they don't want to be Reminded about.
If someone put up a Satanist statue, unless you have a secret desire to have sex with Satan, why let it bother you?

If someone wanted a pornographic sex scene on the court steps, unless you're a perv, why let it bother you?

Porn? Where did that come from? Why would they replace it with porn?
Porn gets better ratings. :p

For 40 to 50 years no one complain about them until last 30 to 20 years.
Unlikely. It's more likely we ignored the people who complained, previously.

And why they put in the Constitution, All men are created equal by the creator.
Given that it didn't include non-landowning white men, any kind of woman or Africans or any other brown-skinned individual, they were clearly lying.

It seems they didn't have a Problem with God in things.
God told them to accept the divinely mandated monarchy and they didn't listen. Jesus told a parable of workers who killed people including a landowner's son and they were destroyed, IIRC. The bible is only for rebellion when it's one they liked. Otherwise, it was looked down upon. Even Jesus didn't want a rebellion against Rome (supposedly), and Rome was verifiably cruel to just about everyone. Putting up biblical imagery and text just drives home the hypocrisy and immorality our country was founded upon.

You say it's against the Constitution, but yet the people who Written up the Constitution, put All men are created equal by the creator.
Did they specify which creator?

Ok, Let's for say they were not Christian. Now why would a person who is not Christian sign their name to the Constitution which was written by christians.
Because once they committed themselves to treason against the Crown, they might as well put their names on it.

That would be like having a Christian document and Atheists sign their name to it.
Do you think if an atheist signs it, their hands will be set on fire?

The slogan on the currency was added to differentiate the USA from the communists - it was a political statement.
Yes, our country is really good at making God kneel before our petty border issues.

Seeing it's Christians free Exercise and seeing Congress can not Prohibiting the free Exercise thereof.
You have the right to freely exercise the ability to ignore the Word of God on sooooooo many levels?

All you have to do is look at what those people stood for and when they attended church each Sunday.
Politicians show up to church to get more votes. It's a photo op, nothing more.

Have you proof to show forth, What is your True Motive is behind in having things Removed?
Respect for God, actually. Your move.

Those people who first came here the pilgrims came here seeking Religious freedom to worship God in the way they chose. And from there came to be the
13 colonies which later became the
13 United States.
And many were criminals exiled out of Europe. And many were businesses trying to make a buck.

I mean, lol, as much as you deify the founding fathers, remember that George Washington only became a rebel after the British army wouldn't promote him. It was 99% about spite, not "freedom".
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
...Given that it didn't include non-landowning white men, any kind of woman or Africans or any other brown-skinned individual, they were clearly lying....
That is true, although early on more then one signer of the constitution believed slavery was an evil, and they did not vanquish it but laid down a framework for doing so. The UK vanquished it first, however the USA did later. I don't think we were founded upon hypocrisy but were trying to become more than just a colonial cash cow. I think there was a lot of desperation involved (in the founding).

...Putting up biblical imagery and text just drives home the hypocrisy and immorality our country was founded upon....
I don't think its founded upon hypocrisy but mainly upon colonization and industry, but then people living here wanted to make it into an ideal and an experiment with government by the people. In addition one unique thing that is American is that anyone can join and become one of us.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
If your going to quote something at lease quote it all and correctly.
The 1st Admendment to the Constitution reads as follows.
"Congress shall not make no law Respecting an establishment of Religion or Prohibiting the free Exercise thereof"

Therefore those things that you say should come down.
Are the free Exercise of Christians and Congress can not Prohibiting the free Exercise thereof.

So as you said, So There's That?

But still you didn't answer the first question. What is your True Motive behind it, to have them Removed?

Seeing it's Christians free Exercise and seeing Congress can not Prohibiting the free Exercise thereof.
I didn't quote it, I referred to it, and assumed you knew the wording of the First Amendment. And how is it that you think I got it wrong?

The thread topic is about why these symbols need to be there in the first place.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I don't consider Christmas Trees to be Christian symbols,. I'm an atheist and have one in our household.


True, pagans of northern europe used fir trees and their branches to decorate mid winter celebrations.

We too often put up a fir tree for our mid winter festival. The cats love them.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
It's not a question whether to allow them or not.
The question is, Why do people feel threatened by them.
People who are concerned about such things, have something to feel guilty about.

Otherwise why let something bother you, Unless people feel guilty about something.

To say they need to come down, is just a cop out, because of those things people feel guilty about something.

What is the True Motive behind it, of wanting them to come down.
Of course people will not be truthful and say for this reason or that reason.

So what is the real Motive behind it,
of wanting them removed ?

Because of them being there shows a quilt. Why else would anyone want them down,

When I see them, I'm don't feel quilty about anything.

You see people who want them down has something to hide.
Without them there, People would feel guilt-free, so they would think.

By looking at them people's conscience convicts them in what they do.

To say, We just want them down, what's their true Motive behind it, of wanting them down. That's the real question to ask.

People will say I have nothing to feel guilty about.Then why let something bother you.
Unless people have a sin in their life, that they don't want to be Reminded about.

So whatever answer you give, What is your True Motive behind it ? Of wanting them down?
And don't say for this reason or that reason, No
What is your true Motive?


No one feels threatened by religious symbolism, it's religious individuals or groups that go around threatening, shooting and bombing.

Note : that no church or biblical verse or religious symbol had ever hurt me or mine. I wish i could say the same about people of religion.
 
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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Those people who first came here the pilgrims came here seeking Religious freedom to worship God in the way they chose. And from there came to be the
13 colonies which later became the
13 United States.
But still you avoid the first question.
What is your True Motive behind in wanting those things Removed.


Actually the pilgrims fled europe so they wouldn't be encumbered by laws that prevented them inflicting their religion by threat. In the new world they had no such restriction
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So you say, but it doesn't change a thing.

Have you proof to show forth, What is your True Motive is behind in having things Removed?
My true motive is adherence to an originalist interpretation of the Constitution.
Look at the Bill Of Rights....all those things...I actively support all those things.
If government can violate one of them, then then can violate any of them.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
That would be more honest in the government, given the news. :p


Because the bible has been whored out to justify lots of sinning.


I would say it's the people who feel a need to paper themselves with "God" (aka: religious texts or symbols) who are the ones trying to hide what's really going on in their heads.


So the people put up statues that are forbidden in the Ten Commandments because they feel guilty they want idols?


Not wanting Jesus and friends to be nothing more than a team mascot, for one. Have some respect for the Messiah, Jesus ...


I thought the entire point of Christianity was to make you feel guilt about something. As I said before, religious texts and imagery has to be some sort of "protective spell" or something, something meant to hide behind to protect us from having to look at ourselves. It can't be to respect the characters within or the deity supposedly responsible, because it's far too crass.


This is a rather long post to say the same sentence over and over and still be wrong.


If someone put up a Satanist statue, unless you have a secret desire to have sex with Satan, why let it bother you?

If someone wanted a pornographic sex scene on the court steps, unless you're a perv, why let it bother you?


Porn gets better ratings. :p


Unlikely. It's more likely we ignored the people who complained, previously.


Given that it didn't include non-landowning white men, any kind of woman or Africans or any other brown-skinned individual, they were clearly lying.


God told them to accept the divinely mandated monarchy and they didn't listen. Jesus told a parable of workers who killed people including a landowner's son and they were destroyed, IIRC. The bible is only for rebellion when it's one they liked. Otherwise, it was looked down upon. Even Jesus didn't want a rebellion against Rome (supposedly), and Rome was verifiably cruel to just about everyone. Putting up biblical imagery and text just drives home the hypocrisy and immorality our country was founded upon.


Did they specify which creator?


Because once they committed themselves to treason against the Crown, they might as well put their names on it.


Do you think if an atheist signs it, their hands will be set on fire?


Yes, our country is really good at making God kneel before our petty border issues.


You have the right to freely exercise the ability to ignore the Word of God on sooooooo many levels?


Politicians show up to church to get more votes. It's a photo op, nothing more.


Respect for God, actually. Your move.


And many were criminals exiled out of Europe. And many were businesses trying to make a buck.

I mean, lol, as much as you deify the founding fathers, remember that George Washington only became a rebel after the British army wouldn't promote him. It was 99% about spite, not "freedom".
You are talking about the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, not the Constitution.

No I am talking about both, The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.
The 1st Admendment to the Constitution
"Congress shall not make no law Respecting an establishment of Religion or Prohibiting the free Exercise thereof"

The Declaration of Independence
"All men are created equal by the creator"

Therefore you have them both.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
No I am talking about both, The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.
The 1st Admendment to the Constitution
"Congress shall not make no law Respecting an establishment of Religion or Prohibiting the free Exercise thereof"

The Declaration of Independence
"All men are created equal by the creator"

Therefore you have them both.
But, the phrase "all men are created equal" is not an endorsement of Christianity. So, what is your point?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
No one feels threatened by religious symbolism, it's religious individuals or groups that go around threatening, shooting and bombing.

Note : that no church or biblical verse or religious symbol had ever hurt me or mine. I wish i could say the same about people of religion.


Oh really, then why are people wanting them to come down.
If your right, that no feels threatened by Religious symbolism.
Then why bother with them.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Actually the pilgrims fled europe so they wouldn't be encumbered by laws that prevented them inflicting their religion by threat. In the new world they had no such restriction

Actually the pilgrims fled Europe to get away from the persecution of the Roman Catholic Church of 1400 years. To worship God in the way they chose.

Then in 1798 Emperor Napoleon sent his General into the Vatican to arrest the Pope to bring an end to the 1400 years of persecution under Roman Catholic Church.
 
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