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Featured The Need For Christian Symbolism on Government Property

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Nov 14, 2017 at 1:00 AM.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    In another post the following questions were asked.

    1. Did you know there is a bible in the cornerstone of the Washington monument?
    2. That there is scripture in the capitol building?
    3. Statue of Moses on the supreme court building?
    4. That both the House and Senate chambers prominently display "In God we trust" in their chambers?
    5. The ten commandments can be found on over a half dozen public buildings in Washington?
    6. Scripture at the Lincoln memorial?
    7. 2 Huge bible's are on display at the library of congress?​

    (I didn't bother to check any of them, but assume they're true.)

    Besides the above mentioned items, "In god we trust" also appears on all our currency.

    At Christmas we have a U.S. Capitol Christmas Tree

    Nativity scenes are frequently erected on public property

    The Ten Commandments are allowed on some government properties

    While it might surprise some RF members, I'm not concerned with the legality of any of these, although I do question it. What I'm more interested in is the "why." Why do the religious, the vast majority being Christians, need these symbols of their faith on secular pieces of property? Would they forget they trust in their god if the words didn't appear on our quarters, nickles, and dimes? Is it not enough that their church has a nativity scene during Christmas? Are there not enough Christmas trees standing around town and on private property that one needs to be erected on the Capitol lawn? And what purpose does the display of the Ten Commandments serve "on over a half dozen public buildings in Washington?"

    I know Christians believe these displays of their faith are quite appropriate, but what is this incredible need for them?

    Why is it necessary to include the words "In God We Trust" on all our currency?

    Why is it necessary that representations of Christmas be erected on public property?

    Why is it necessary that images from the Old Testament appear on our government buildings?

    And if they're not necessary then why do we allow them? Aren't churches and the homes of their parishioners adequate?


    And PLEASE, no This is a Christian nation or America was founded on Christian principles therefore . . . . . If these are your best replies then save yourself the effort and don't bother posting.

    .
     
    #1 Skwim, Nov 14, 2017 at 1:00 AM
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 4:19 PM
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  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 Theistic Rationalist and Libertarian
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    Just to drive you insane.


    I jest!

    I guess it depends on the local city government to decide for nativity scenes etc. So a citizen proposes a nativity scene to be installed at city hall or wherever at a city council meeting. The city council hear pro and con arguments from other citizens, then take a vote. If more city council member vote yes, the nativity scene goes up, and vice versa. Its not a necessity, just makes the holidays nicer for some people. One of my favorite past times is to go on a cruise and look at Christmas decorations around town, as I am sure other people can relate to.

    I am not sure how it's decided on a federal level, but I'd assume some similar process.

    There is a story about "In God we Trust" on money but I can't be arsed to go look it up.
     
  3. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Write them a letter, maybe they will let you take it all down and replace it with porn.
     
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  4. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    People need symbols and ritual to support the narrative they're comfortable with, particularly if it has no actual objective support.
     
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  5. JJ50

    JJ50 Member

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    Belief in god has done the USofA no favours at all.:eek:
     
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  6. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    I don't consider Christmas Trees to be Christian symbols,. I'm an atheist and have one in our household.
     
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  7. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    No doubt the prevailing Ethos at the time was More faith based than it is today.

    The Religious blessings at the Opening of great public building and on great occasions was has been the norm from long before the USA won its independence.

    Even to day great occasions have a semi religious base. Even Presidents swear their oath on the bible.
    And prayers are said by sporting teams in public before matches.
    and public religious memorial services are held for both the military and political dead.
    For a country that purports to be secular it sure displays a remarkable degree of religiosity.
     
  8. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    It's not a question whether to allow them or not.
    The question is, Why do people feel threatened by them.
    People who are concerned about such things, have something to feel guilty about.

    Otherwise why let something bother you, Unless people feel guilty about something.

    To say they need to come down, is just a cop out, because of those things people feel guilty about something.

    What is the True Motive behind it, of wanting them to come down.
    Of course people will not be truthful and say for this reason or that reason.

    So what is the real Motive behind it,
    of wanting them removed ?

    Because of them being there shows a quilt. Why else would anyone want them down,

    When I see them, I'm don't feel quilty about anything.

    You see people who want them down has something to hide.
    Without them there, People would feel guilt-free, so they would think.

    By looking at them people's conscience convicts them in what they do.

    To say, We just want them down, what's their true Motive behind it, of wanting them down. That's the real question to ask.

    People will say I have nothing to feel guilty about.Then why let something bother you.
    Unless people have a sin in their life, that they don't want to be Reminded about.

    So whatever answer you give, What is your True Motive behind it ? Of wanting them down?
    And don't say for this reason or that reason, No
    What is your true Motive?
     
  9. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Not threatened. Embarrassed.
     
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  10. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    Porn? Where did that come from? Why would they replace it with porn?
     
  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Atheist Capitalist Libertarian Gearhead
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    I think we should leave all the religious symbolism & proselytizing on government
    property & on money. Moreover, in the interest of diversity, we should even expand it.
    I recommend that we add other religious messages, & even change things up regularly.
    Examples....

    Coins & bills could be minted & printed with a variety of slogans...
    "In Allah we trust"
    "In no gods we trust"
    "The FSM rules"
    "Mind your business"<--- Original slogan (on the Fugio cent)
    "We are one" <--- Original slogan (on the Fugio cent)
    ______________ <--- Your slogan here!

    The Pledge of Allegiance could be returned to its original non-under-God version.
    Or it could be shortened to....
    "I promise to not be a traitor."
    "Mind your business."
    "In Americastan, we don't require loyalty oaths!" <--- My favoritek
     
    #11 Revoltingest, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:44 AM
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 7:50 AM
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  12. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    Why do you think that guilt is the reason people want religious symbols on government property to come down? And, please, keep in mind that saying "why else would they want them down" is not answering the question in any way or providing evidence for your conclusion. I am asking why you think that guilt is the reasoning specifically. You failed to support this claim in your post here.
     
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  13. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    I think they should come down because they violate the US Constitution. The Government cannot endorse any kind of religion as being official or support any religion over another. Putting Christian symbols up on government land is, without a doubt, supporting the Christian religion. So, my reasoning is that I don't think government officials should actively be ignoring the constitution and the law.
     
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  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Why are you Embarrassed, There's no reason to be Embarrassed, other than feeling guilty about something.

    So what is your true Motive behind you being Embarrassed?

    Everyone has something, But does not tell what is their true Motive behind it.
     
  15. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    What other reason would there be other than a person has quilt.

    For 40 to 50 years no one complain about them until last 30 to 20 years.

    It seems that people let things bother them. That people didn't let bother them
     
  16. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should study out about those people long ago, Who founded this Country.
    And why they put in the Constitution, All men are created equal by the creator.

    It seems they didn't have a Problem with God in things.
     
  17. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    You literally did exactly what I asked you not to do, and failed to answer my question.

    Can you actually answer my question or is the logically fallacious excuse, "well, what else could it be", all you've got?

    Here are a few alternative reasons for taking down these symbols: They are a violation of the US Constitution and the law. They show support for one religion over another. They could make members of other faiths feel unwelcome in their own community.
     
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  18. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    I think you are in need of studying the founding fathers. Most of them were Deists, not Christians. Having God in there is a lot different from having Christian symbolism.

    But, regardless, they added in the strict limitation of supporting one religion over another.
     
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  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Atheist Capitalist Libertarian Gearhead
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    "God" is a proper name for the Xian god.
    "Creator" is generic, including Allah, God, Lakshmi, Zeus, etc, etc.

    Would you be OK with replacing "God" with "Allah"?
     
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  20. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    They went out of their way to make it strictly illegal to endorse or show support for one religion over another. What more could you possibly want?

    By the way, I never said anything about mentioning God. I am speaking to symbolism that is Christian.
     
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