The Nazi's,the Muslim Brotherhood and Palestine

[England my lionheart]

Every comment, and every thread you start, concerning Muslims blasts them for some percieved wrong.

This thread is but one example.

Wrong again,this thread is about the history of the conflict in Palestine and the collaboration between the Nazis and the Muslim Brotherhood and its effect on what is happening today and considering these historical facts "how can Israel deal with Hamas".
If my perception of a version of Islam that stones people to death for Adultery Homosexuality,Apostacy or the amputation of limbs is wrong then show me otherwise but not in this thread,show me in the threads you disagree with.

 

[AxisMundi]

Wrong again,this thread is about the history of the conflict in Palestine and the collaboration between the Nazis and the Muslim Brotherhood and its effect on what is happening today and considering these historical facts "how can Israel deal with Hamas".
If my perception of a version of Islam that stones people to death for Adultery Homosexuality,Apostacy or the amputation of limbs is wrong then show me otherwise but not in this thread,show me in the threads you disagree with.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...e-rejected-victory-common-sense-equality.html

 

[England my lionheart]

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...e-rejected-victory-common-sense-equality.html

And your point is?

 

[Caladan]

What I see here is an Arab man who joined many from around the world in the illusion of Nazism, lost in the glamour of Nazi Germany's charismatic leader. I then see this man, or perhaps even a small group of men he manged to gather to him, molded into a rather weak link between modern Palestine and those men who joined the Nazi movement of Germany in the 1930's.

There are a few levels to this. because of the aftermath of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, the Grand Mufti Al-Husseini lost much of his political influence.
however the notion that he managed to gather a 'small group of men' needs to be examined. lets see what Edward Said, who was perhaps the most prominent Palestinian intellectual has said of Al-Husseini:

Hajj Amin al-Husayni represented the Palestinian Arab national consensus, had the backing of the Palestinian political parties that functioned in Palestine, and was recognized in some form by Arab governments as the voice of the Palestinian people

I would distance myself from equating Islam with Nazism. for some basic reasons, one of them being that I consider Islam to be a 'legit' faith of the Abrahamic family (in the cultural sense) but I can't afford being oblivious to many concerning movements within Islamic societies, or to be oblivious not only to radical political Islam, but historical and contemporary leaders who have been dealing and propagating some highly disturbing agendas.

 

[Sahar]

Your naked hatred of Muslims is quite obvious, not only on this thread, but others you have started as well.

Exactly.

 

[YmirGF]

I can't afford being oblivious to many concerning movements within Islamic societies, or to be oblivious not only to radical political Islam, but historical and contemporary leaders who have been dealing and propagating some highly disturbing agendas.

When we ignore history, we are doomed to repeat it, until we learn to pay attention.

 

[AxisMundi]

There are a few levels to this. because of the aftermath of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, the Grand Mufti Al-Husseini lost much of his political influence.
however the notion that he managed to gather a 'small group of men' needs to be examined. lets see what Edward Said, who was perhaps the most prominent Palestinian intellectual has said of Al-Husseini:


I would distance myself from equating Islam with Nazism. for some basic reasons, one of them being that I consider Islam to be a 'legit' faith of the Abrahamic family (in the cultural sense) but I can't afford being oblivious to many concerning movements within Islamic societies, or to be oblivious not only to radical political Islam, but historical and contemporary leaders who have been dealing and propagating some highly disturbing agendas.

Edward Wadie Saïd (Arabic pronunciation: [wædiːʕ sæʕiːd] Arabic: إدوارد وديع سعيد‎, Idwārd Wadīʿ Saʿīd; 1 November 1935 – 25 September 2003) was a Palestinian-American literary theorist and advocate for Palestinian rights. He was University Professor of English and Comparative Literature at Columbia University and a founding figure in postcolonialism.[1] Robert Fisk described him as the Palestinians' "most powerful political voice.....

Perhaps far from an unbiased source?

While I could certainly see some Arabs siding with Nazi Germany who, again, was warring with the colonial oppressors, not only were the religions incompadable, the ideologies were as well.

 

[YmirGF]

While I could certainly see some Arabs siding with Nazi Germany who, again, was warring with the colonial oppressors, not only were the religions incompadable, the ideologies were as well.

Adversity makes for strange bedfellows.

 

[AxisMundi]

Adversity makes for strange bedfellows.

Indeed, and the quickest way for one to make a worst enemy out of a best friend is to share an apartment.

 

[Caladan]

Perhaps far from an unbiased source?

Eh?
I specifically brought Said, because he was one of the most important voices of the Palestinian national movement. if he is biased than any other source would be rendered useless. if the voice of Palestinians is biased on Palestinian matters, would you rather I brought Israeli analysts? would that be unbiased?

While I could certainly see some Arabs siding with Nazi Germany who, again, was warring with the colonial oppressors, not only were the religions incompadable, the ideologies were as well.

Are you voicing your opinion of Islam and other ideologies, or your observation of political movements and trends within societies?
because the trends are there. depiction of Jews as murderers of the prophets, blood libels, conspiracy theories about Jews dominating the world, Mein Kampf and the Protocols as best sellers, these are all existing phenomena. the Grand Mufti certainly thought his faith is compatible with Nazi ideologies, he personally torpedoed the escape of Jewish children from the Nazis. we are talking about the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a prominent religious leader, who swayed great political influence at the time, so to say that the ideologies cannot be compatible is to ignore that to some they were.
Hamas has issued statements equating Jews with cancer, and that the goal of Hamas is to clear Palestine (or rather 'all Palestine', where Israel is) of Jews. in many ways the ideologies are highly compatible.
Do you want provoke the eternal 'no true Scotsman' argument go ahead. but its hard to deny that many agendas in radical Islamist ideologies share similarities with some of the most radical movements in history.
Do I think its a good idea to equate Islam as a general phenomena with Nazism?
of course not.

 

[AxisMundi]

Eh?
I specifically brought Said, because he was one of the most important voices of the Palestinian national movement. if he is biased than any other source would be rendered useless. if the voice of Palestinians is biased on Palestinian matters, would you rather I brought Israeli analysts? would that be unbiased?


Are you voicing your opinion of Islam and other ideologies, or your observation of political movements and trends within societies?
because the trends are there. depiction of Jews as murderers of the prophets, blood libels, conspiracy theories about Jews dominating the world, Mein Kamp and the Protocols as best sellers, these are all existing phenomena. the Grand Mufti certainly thought his faith is compatible with Nazi ideologies, he personally torpedoed the escape of Jewish children from the Nazis. we are talking about the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a prominent religious leader, who swayed great political influence at the time, so to say that the ideologies cannot be compatible is to ignore that to some they were.
Hamas has issued statements equating Jews with cancer, and that the goal of Hamas is to clear Palestine (or rather 'all Palestine', where Israel is) of Jews. in many ways the ideologies are highly compatible.
Do you want provoke the eternal 'no true Scotsman' argument go ahead. but its hard to deny that many agendas in radical Islamist ideologies share similarities with some of the most radical movements in history.
Do I think its a good idea to equate Islam as a general phenomena with Nazism?
of course not.

An unbiased view of an event or events not personally witnessed is gained only through gathering information from both sides of the issue.

Also, pushing what one considers invaders (Jews) from one's homeland can hardly be compared to the all-out genocide pushed by the Nazis, so it appears we agree there.

And I agree also on hardline Islam, as it does reflect some of the toughest ideologies in history, totalitarian all. Nazism is not totalitarian, of course, but Facist. World of difference.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Nazism is not totalitarian, of course, but Facist. World of difference.

Could you explain this difference? I thought I understood what these words mean, but now I realize perhaps I don't.

 

[dust1n]

Fascism is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism with a corporatist economic system, and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum.

Totalitarianism is a political system where the state, usually under the control of a single political organization, faction, or class domination, recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible.


Wiki.

 

[AxisMundi]

Thank you dust1n.

 

[England my lionheart]

Exactly.

Tush,you know thats not true not4me,after all i like you and admire your honesty even though we never agree,personally i see no use for hatred of anything,i do however dislike say Osama Bin Laden but i very much like Ali a Muslim Gentleman who i take Tea with at a Market so to say i hate Muslims is total drivel.

 

[dust1n]

Thank you dust1n.

No problem. It is general for people to think they are synonymous; rather each one has it's own characteristics and implications.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Would you say there is a "world of difference" between them?

 

[AxisMundi]

Would you say there is a "world of difference" between them?

There are some similarities between all of the ideological classifications, but none are substantial enough to matter.

Capitalism is nearly a polar opposite of socialism, for example, but a capitalistic society has a certain percentage of socialism in public works, infrastructure, services, etc.

However, Facism and the totalitarianism of theocracy have little to do with one another.

 

[England my lionheart]

So to recap,through historical fact the Muslim Brotherhood and the Nazis were bedfellows with a common aim which was to eradicate the Jews and expansionism,this is firmly stamped by Al Banna and Qutb in their literature,Qutbs "Milestones" and Al Banna's the "way of Jihad" and our struggle with the Jews,it is also worth a reminder that the Muslim Brotherhood intends to "carry on the path of Qutbs reforms" which is worrying in itself and the activities of the MB worldwide show how detrimental they can be.

So bearing in mind the facts presented along with the Genocide commited in WW2 and the Hamas Charter how can Israel deal with Hamas? i ask again because as i see it Hamas have nothing to bring to the table other than the Charter/covernant which states quite clearly that there can never be negotiation or peace ever.

 

[Tiapan]

I guessed there were to many similarities to dismiss as coincidence, so we are not dealing with islamists we are dealing with neonazism. World domination, insane leaders, death sentences handed out like lollipops, secret (religious) police, the only thing missing is the silly little mustache. (guess its hidden under their big woolly beards. Be afraid be very afraid


Cheers