The myths of Genesis

[Polymath257]

Same experience that I have had and try to get them to engage in a serious discussion where both parties will agree and abide, to answer all questions they may be asked...it will not happen.

Will you limit questions to the topic at hand, agreed upon before hand?

 

[Curious George]

Will you limit questions to the topic at hand, agreed upon before hand?

Dishonest questions are as good as dishonest answers.

 

[Ted Evans]

I am happy to answer all questions within the scope of our current discussion regarding whether or not Genesis makes a claim. Questions outside this scope would be dishonest as that is what our discussion regards.

OK, it is written in Gen 1:1- 5....

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.” (Genesis 1:1–5, NASB95)

Would you say that is a claim by Scripture that God created the heavens and the earth?

 

[Polymath257]

Would you include the BB theory in that, only accepting what can be proven?

Yes, of course. We only accept those aspects of the BB theory that can be proven as having been proven.

OK, it is written in Gen 1:1- 5....

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.” (Genesis 1:1–5, NASB95)

Would you say that is a claim by Scripture that God created the heavens and the earth?

Yes. It's in the first sentence (accepting as implied that Genesis is scripture).

 

[Ted Evans]

Will you limit questions to the topic at hand, agreed upon before hand?

Do you consider the writings in Gen 1-20 as being the "topic at hand"? If the answer is yes, of course I do, just as soon as you agree to answer all questions that I may ask, do you agree, yes or no?

 

[Polymath257]

Do you consider the writings in Gen 1-20 as being the "topic at hand"? If the answer is yes, of course I do, just as soon as you agree to answer all questions that I may ask, do you agree, yes or no?

Do you accept to ask only questions related to either Genesis 1-20, the scientific evidence concerning it, or the period of the Big Bang after the beginning of the quark epoch?

 

[Curious George]

OK, it is written in Gen 1:1- 5....

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.” (Genesis 1:1–5, NASB95)

Would you say that is a claim by Scripture that God created the heavens and the earth?

Yes and No. It is a statement in a scripture. It makes no claim regarding the interpretation outside the given scripture. Therefore, it is not a claim outside the given scripture. It is not self referential, therefore nothing within can claim that it is literal as opposed to allegorical or parabolic.

 

[Ted Evans]

What is your faith based on, Ted? That would enlighten me, over these same tired arguments that really don't go anywhere.

Why should I answer your questions when you refuse to answer mine? Did I previously offer to engage in a serious discussion with you but you were not interested? You have opinions, great, so does every one of us that post in this group. The question is, can our opinions be corroborated as true or can they not?

 

[Deidre]

Why should I answer your questions when you refuse to answer mine? Did I previously offer to engage in a serious discussion with you but you were not interested?

I said I was interested at first, but I'm not sure what questions you were referring to, then.

You have opinions, great, so does every one of us that post in this group. The question is, can our opinions be corroborated as true or can they not?

What is true for me, will never be true for you, and vice versa. You could corroborate some ''facts'' from the Bible, because there were actual kings and dynasties in place that the Bible speaks of. But, to use the Bible as factual proof of an almighty God? No, I think that will always be your and other Bible believing Christians' opinions. You need proof of evolution, and there is a lot of evidence to support the accepted theory, yet you prefer the Bible. Why do you not hold the Bible up to the same scrutiny that you hold science to?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

yet as an atheist I recognize how beliefs differ from other people claiming to be atheists. This seems a contradictory experience to yours. How can we reconcile our contradictory experiences?

Well what are your beliefs, as an atheist?

 

[Ted Evans]

Do you apply the same principle when it comes to believing what's in the Bible?

Yes...for anything that can be reasonably proven as a fact, otherwise, I acknowledge up front that it is my belief. How about you?

Just as an example, the Bible reads that God would scatter the Jewish people from their homeland to other countries of the world and He would bring them back to their homeland in the latter days. Starting about 70 AD, the Jewish people, as a nation, ceased to exist. Approximately 2k years later on May 14, 1948, the Jewish nation of Israel was reestablished in their homeland, that is a provable fact. However, I would bet that you have all kinds of, "but, if," concerning the scriptures, correct?

 

[Curious George]

I said I was interested at first, but I'm not sure what questions you were referring to, then.



What is true for me, will never be true for you, and vice versa. You could corroborate some ''facts'' from the Bible, because there were actual kings and dynasties in place that the Bible speaks of. But, to use the Bible as factual proof of an almighty God? No, I think that will always be your and other Bible believing Christians' opinions. You need proof of evolution, and there is a lot of evidence to support the accepted theory, yet you prefer the Bible. Why do you not hold the Bible up to the same scrutiny that you hold science to?

I do not believe your questions are "gotchya" questions, therefore I, and I believe any other user, should be happy to answer your questions.

How different users use this site is apparent in their posts. I find your use to be refreshing.

Cheers

 

[Polymath257]

Yes...for anything that can be reasonably proven as a fact, otherwise, I acknowledge up front that it is my belief. How about you?

Just as an example, the Bible reads that God would scatter the Jewish people from their homeland to other countries of the world and He would bring them back to their homeland in the latter days. Starting about 70 AD, the Jewish people, as a nation, ceased to exist. Approximately 2k years later on May 14, 1948, the Jewish nation of Israel was reestablished in their homeland, that is a provable fact. However, I would bet that you have all kinds of, "but, if," concerning the scriptures, correct?

So is it your belief that the latter events were predicted by the writings in the Bible?

 

[Curious George]

Well what are your beliefs, as an atheist?

That no god exists and that atheism is the belief that no god exists. However some atheists seem to think that atheism is also no belief regarding the exiatance of a god.

 

[Ted Evans]

https://www.amazon.com/Cosmology-Steven-Weinberg/dp/0198526822/

This is a book at a level more appropriate for you, but it doesn't go into all the evidence:

https://www.amazon.com/First-Three-Minutes-Modern-Universe/dp/0465024378/

Of course you know that I do not have those books and I am not about to run out and purchased them on your claims. IF, it can be documented as fact, there would be numerous links that would do so. I bet I could find books that would refute the claims in your recommend books.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The whole literalist Bible thing is based upon expecting answers as if they are owed, but no answers are owed. I will have pity, however. Using Christian texts to decipher it, 'In the beginning' is clearly talking about the beginning of Israel. Compare the lines of chapter 1 of Genesis to the first 3 chapters of John (in the Christian section of any Bible). John very explicitly uses similar language as Genesis and points out that Jesus is the light of a new creation. Hence it is plain that the light in Genesis is Moses.

 

[Polymath257]

Of course you know that I do not have those books and I am not about to run out and purchased them on your claims. IF, it can be documented as fact, there would be numerous links that would do so. I bet I could find books that would refute the claims in your recommend books.

Written by a Nobel Prize winner in physics?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

That no god exists and that atheism is the belief that no god exists. However some atheists seem to think that atheism is also no belief regarding the exiatance of a god.

Well there you go, that is exactly what I used to do; frame all my beliefs as mere disbelief of other people's- it 's always easier to scrutinize other people's beliefs than your own, especially when you avoid acknowledging them.

 

[Curious George]

OK, it is written in Gen 1:1- 5....

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.” (Genesis 1:1–5, NASB95)

Would you say that is a claim by Scripture that God created the heavens and the earth?

Yes and No. It is a statement in a scripture. It makes no claim regarding the interpretation outside the given scripture. Therefore, it is not a claim outside the given scripture. It is not self referential, therefore nothing within can claim that it is literal as opposed to allegorical or parabolic.

Do you have more questions regarding this?

 

[Curious George]

Well there you go, that is exactly what I used to do; frame all my beliefs as mere disbelief of other people's- it 's always easier to scrutinize other people's beliefs than your own, especially when you avoid acknowledging them.

Yes, I make no claim that some atheists do not frame their view as "disbelief." But your post seemed to indicate that all atheists do this. If you are now qualifying your remark toward athiests with "some," I think that is reasonable.