The myths of Genesis

[shmogie]

No. The concept that no god exists is definitely something. I am not claiming as some atheists do, that I lack belief. I fully acknowledge my belief that no god exists.

Atheism by definition is a belief in nothing. It is in response to theism, a belief that god/s gods exist. A theism is a belief that NO gods exist, i.e. a belief in nothing within the realm of theism. Semantics, really

 

[Ted Evans]

Here's the chronology of the universe from 10e-43 of a second after it began.

I have read that many times, I certainly would be impressed if someone could provide documented evidence proving that is an irrefutable fact. Do you have a suggested link?

 

[Deidre]

This really gets old but of course, it is nothing more than excuses. Forget about "books" go to the the original copies of MSS and tell me what is in the "books" that are not in those MSS, can you do that?

What is your faith based on, Ted? That would enlighten me, over these same tired arguments that really don't go anywhere.

 

[metis]

I certainly would be impressed if someone could provide documented evidence proving that is an irrefutable fact.

Do you apply the same principle when it comes to believing what's in the Bible?

 

[Ted Evans]

I once took one of these ignorant through Daniels prophecy re the statue first proving beyond doubt it was before the event, and was exactly right in every detail. His response, "just a coincidence" When I offered to give him more, he broke off. That is the religion challenging Christianity.

Same experience that I have had and try to get them to engage in a serious discussion where both parties will agree and abide, to answer all questions they may be asked...it will not happen.

 

[Ted Evans]

In my opinion, it's the other way around. The skeptic has the open mind, and the believer has closed his mind to the possibility that the book has as many internal contradictions, failed prophecies, unkept promises, moral and intellectual errors ascribed to a god, and errors of science and history as it does.

IF, that is true, why am I willing to engage in a discussion and answer every question that I am asked, would that not prove my ignorance? Are you willing to take the same chance? My bet is that you would not which is the case for those that only have talk but no evidence to back it up. Care to prove me wrong?

 

[Curious George]

Atheism by definition is a belief in nothing. It is in response to theism, a belief that god/s gods exist. A theism is a belief that NO gods exist, i.e. a belief in nothing within the realm of theism. Semantics, really

Theism exists in our world. Atheism exists in our world. In our world, atheism is not belief in nothing but belief regarding the truth of the proposition no god exists. The proposition is a thing. Therefore the conception of the proposition is a thing; therefore, what atheists believe in, if atheists believe in the conception that no god exists, can not be no thing (nothing). This is not semantics really. This is you being mistaken. If you want to opt for a figurative definition of nothing, say so at the outset.

 

[Deidre]

Same experience that I have had and try to get them to engage in a serious discussion where both parties will agree and abide, to answer all questions they may be asked...it will not happen.

We answer you, but you don't like our answers lol Because they don't align with your beliefs.

 

[Ted Evans]

But even so, you have not found a later claim that forces a claim in Genesis. Furthermore, you have not articulated a claim that would require a literal reading of the book of Genesis, which is what I anticipate you are trying to achieve.

I am not at all surprised by your opinions, pretty much expected.

 

[Polymath257]

According to some non-Bible believing Christians, this is a partial list in the first 20 chapters of Genesis that do not mean what it would seem when reading the verses. It is all metaphors, idioms, symbolism etc. and is not to be taken literally. Nothing but a story fabricated by man and God had nothing to do with it.


The Creation – a metaphor.

The Creation of Man and Woman – not true.

The Fall of Man – no such thing.

Cain and Abel – just a myth.

Descendants of Adam – made up.

The Corruption of Mankind – a fairy tale.

The Flood – what a joke.

Covenant of the Rainbow – never happened.

Descendants of Noah – a fairy tale.

Universal Language, Babel, Confusion – just a metaphor.

Abram Journeys to Egypt – never happened.

Abram and Lot – no such people.

War of the Kings – has nothing to do with scripture.

God’s Promise to Abram – did not happen.

Abram Promised a Son – a metaphor.

Abraham and the Covenant of Circumcision – no such thing.

Birth of Isaac Promised – a metaphor, never happened.

The Doom of Sodom – just a myth.

Abraham’s Treachery – did not happen.

“I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.” (Revelation 22:18–19, NASB95) Think about it.

The story in Genesis was an accurate description of what people believed at one time. It is not, however, valid history.

If you believe otherwise, provide empirical evidence to support your viewpoint.

 

[Polymath257]

I have read that many times, I certainly would be impressed if someone could provide documented evidence proving that is an irrefutable fact. Do you have a suggested link?

https://www.amazon.com/Cosmology-Steven-Weinberg/dp/0198526822/

This is a book at a level more appropriate for you, but it doesn't go into all the evidence:

https://www.amazon.com/First-Three-Minutes-Modern-Universe/dp/0465024378/

 

[Curious George]

Same experience that I have had and try to get them to engage in a serious discussion where both parties will agree and abide, to answer all questions they may be asked...it will not happen.

Again, you have an offer on the table to discuss questions within the scope of our discusaion, and you have chosen to avoid it.

I am not at all surprised by your opinions, pretty much expected.

And I am willing to back those opinions up. The offer is on the table. I will gladly discuss this with you.

 

[Deidre]

I am not at all surprised by your opinions, pretty much expected.

When I was following Christianity, I didn't care if anyone understood what I believed. These discussions make me wonder...why do some theists care to prove their faith and beliefs to everyone? As if we need to accept your beliefs, we honestly don't need to. It doesn't mean we hate your faith, or dislike what you're saying, it just means we don't see it like you do. I no longer look at the Bible and feel the way you do, or the way I used to. That doesn't make either of us wrong, really...it just means ...I don't believe what you believe. I could believe there is a deity, but not the one in the Bible. He sounds incredibly human, to be honest. But, this is just my belief. I can't offer you evidence as to why I don't believe other than this is what I've concluded upon reading the Bible, and other holy books. You have come to a different conclusion. That's really all there is to this.

 

[Ted Evans]

I already agreed given the question will be regarding the scope of our current conversation.

Just to be clear in my understanding, due to past experience, I am not all that trusting. You are willing to answer all questions that I may ask you correct?

If you wish to refute what I have written, I will be happy to give you that opportunity and I will answer every question that you ask me, IF, you will agree to do the same.

 

[Polymath257]

I have read that many times, I certainly would be impressed if someone could provide documented evidence proving that is an irrefutable fact. Do you have a suggested link?

You will notice that the link explicitly said that anything before the first picosecond is the subject of current research and is beyong the current theories of particle physics.

But yes, the rest is very well documented, but you will have to learn a bit of general relativity and quantum mechanics (specifically particle physics) to understand what it says.

Do you have a *specific* question concerning documentation for the times after the first picosecond?

 

[Ted Evans]

The bb theory(s) are theories. That's why they are called theories.

The reason for the (s) is there are 28 bb theories that i know of, there may be more.

So where is your answer to the question that I asked?

 

[Polymath257]

Just to be clear in my understanding, due to past experience, I am not all that trusting. You are willing to answer all questions that I may ask you correct?

I am willing to answer all questions for any times after the beginning of the quark epoch.

 

[Ted Evans]

I always try to

That does not answer my question as it was asked, does it? You either agree to answer all questions that I may ask or you do not, just like I am willing to do.

 

[Curious George]

Just to be clear in my understanding, due to past experience, I am not all that trusting. You are willing to answer all questions that I may ask you correct?

I am happy to answer all questions within the scope of our current discussion regarding whether or not Genesis makes a claim. Questions outside this scope would be dishonest as that is what our discussion regards.

 

[Ted Evans]

ike Christians are asking (expecting) non-believers to do.

What believers? I am a believer and I do not ask or expect, non-believers, or even non-Bible believing Christians to worship anything?

 

[Deidre]

What believers? I am a believer and I do not ask or expect, non-believers, or even non-Bible believing Christians to worship anything?

The Bible isn't a history book, it's a book to promote a belief. What are you hoping to accomplish by telling non-believers that we should treat the Bible as literally ''God's word?''